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"union bureaucracy" is mostly just anti-union propaganda, unions are no more bureaucratic than the corporations they live in, the difference is they are typical

by 49531 8y ago

"union bureaucracy" is mostly just anti-union propaganda, unions are no more bureaucratic than the corporations they live in, the difference is they are typically democratic organizations. You have little to no control over the bureaucracy of the company you work for as an ordinary worker. In a union you can.

manfredo 8y ago
This is definitely not true. Some unionized aerospace companies literally draw a line on the floor that engineers can't cross. When an engineer needs to make a change to a spacecraft they need to describe how to perform the change to a technician, wait for the technician to do it, and repeat the process if the technician doesn't do it right. Policies like those would immediately go out the door if union rules didn't mandate that only the unionized technicians can work on spacecraft.
- perfmode 8y ago
  This is a bug. Not a feature
  - manfredo 8y ago
    No, this is a feature, not a bug. Union rules often create redundant roles for the purposes of making the company hire more employees. More unnecessary work for the unionized technicians in this case, at the expense of making the company as a whole less efficient. Remember, the union is incentivized to do what's best for the union which is distinct from what is best for the company or its members.
    - perfmode 8y ago
      You’re stuck in the past. Instead of lamenting about the negative effects of past schemes with the idea that any future scheme will have the same problems, how about we design new solutions given all of the experience and information we now possess. Are we not technologists and engineers? A defeatist attitude just slows down the problem solving process.
      - manfredo 8y ago
        The current situation is working perfectly fine for plenty of tech workers. We have some of the best ratio of compensation to working experience in the country. There's a reason why so many people want to get into tech. Forced arbitration or not, I highly doubt the average Google Dev would want to trade life situations with the average American. Are we not technologists and engineers? Don't we know enough about the pitfalls of trying to fix a system that isn't broken?
        madhadron 8y ago
        > We have some of the best ratio of compensation to working experience in the country. But is it among the best ratios of compensation to value provided to the company? That's the more interesting number.
        perfmode 8y ago
        > Are we not technologists and engineers? Don't we know enough about the pitfalls of trying to fix a system that isn't broken? The system isn't broken for _you_. You're not in a position to speak on behalf of me.
JoshTriplett 8y ago
> "union bureaucracy" is mostly just anti-union propaganda, unions are no more bureaucratic than the corporations they live in So, extremely? "no more bureaucratic than the corporations they live in" is not a hard standard to meet while still being incredibly bureaucratic.

by 49531 8y ago

manfredo 8y ago

This is definitely not true. Some unionized aerospace companies literally draw a line on the floor that engineers can't cross. When an engineer needs to make a change to a spacecraft they need to describe how to perform the change to a technician, wait for the technician to do it, and repeat the process if the technician doesn't do it right. Policies like those would immediately go out the door if union rules didn't mandate that only the unionized technicians can work on spacecraft.

perfmode 8y ago
This is a bug. Not a feature
- manfredo 8y ago
  No, this is a feature, not a bug. Union rules often create redundant roles for the purposes of making the company hire more employees. More unnecessary work for the unionized technicians in this case, at the expense of making the company as a whole less efficient. Remember, the union is incentivized to do what's best for the union which is distinct from what is best for the company or its members.
  - perfmode 8y ago
    You’re stuck in the past. Instead of lamenting about the negative effects of past schemes with the idea that any future scheme will have the same problems, how about we design new solutions given all of the experience and information we now possess. Are we not technologists and engineers? A defeatist attitude just slows down the problem solving process.
    - manfredo 8y ago
      The current situation is working perfectly fine for plenty of tech workers. We have some of the best ratio of compensation to working experience in the country. There's a reason why so many people want to get into tech. Forced arbitration or not, I highly doubt the average Google Dev would want to trade life situations with the average American. Are we not technologists and engineers? Don't we know enough about the pitfalls of trying to fix a system that isn't broken?
      - madhadron 8y ago
        > We have some of the best ratio of compensation to working experience in the country. But is it among the best ratios of compensation to value provided to the company? That's the more interesting number.
      - perfmode 8y ago
        > Are we not technologists and engineers? Don't we know enough about the pitfalls of trying to fix a system that isn't broken? The system isn't broken for _you_. You're not in a position to speak on behalf of me.

JoshTriplett 8y ago

> "union bureaucracy" is mostly just anti-union propaganda, unions are no more bureaucratic than the corporations they live in So, extremely? "no more bureaucratic than the corporations they live in" is not a hard standard to meet while still being incredibly bureaucratic.