5 ms·

Serious question, are Romero and Carmack still friends? I think they're both brilliant and a great example of a duo. For some reason the internet paints them a

Serious question, are Romero and Carmack still friends? I think they're both brilliant and a great example of a duo. For some reason the internet paints them as rivals, or that Carmack was the one who succeeded (continuing with ID and now at FB) and Romero faded away and was never really technical (and works at a gas station).

WAthrowaway 8y ago
Romero was fairly technical - he did a large chunk of the level design and coding around that with the editor. I think him and Tom Hall split that work.
acdanger 8y ago
I read the book Masters of Doom a few years ago and they did a good job portraying them as creative rivals with clashing personalities. I don't know if they've reconciled in recent years and I've never heard about Romero working at a gas station. Any source for that? https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Culture-ebook/dp/B000FBFNL0 https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Cult...
- ydnaclementine 8y ago
  gas station is bit of a troll comment, but this picture of Romero loves to get spread: i.imgur.com/qD7Jr.png
- whatever_dude 8y ago
  Literally the last thing Masters of Doom talks about is how Carmack and Romero are still friends. Maybe not best buddies - they have completely different personalities - but I don't think there's much animosity between them. There's no basis for the claim he's working at a gas station. He runs a game development company in Ireland.
newnewpdro 8y ago
I don't know if they're still friends, but there's clearly been some animosity in the past. Carmack isn't constantly humping the successes of his distant past trying to use them to generate hype and interest in himself, even though he's been largely responsible for them. Romero just seems like a slacker, riding on the coattails of those early shared successes, milking the association dry.
- dkonofalski 8y ago
  Romero was just as responsible for the success of id as Carmack was. He wrote the tools and editors the team used to get everything into the game and was probably the single biggest proponent of opening up the game to the public and allowing for custom content. As pointed out in the OP post, he was also the one who both came up with the idea and the name for Deathmatch which, although it would have eventually found its way into culture through another game, was really the reason that DooM became as big as it did.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    Id Software succeeded despite Romero, just look at Daikatana/Ion Storm.
    - dkonofalski 8y ago
      That's a very revisionist view of their development taking into account that the Daikatana/Ion Storm debacle never would have come about if it wasn't for DooM.
      - jeffbax 8y ago
        Agreed. Look I enjoy a good Daikatana joke like any other, but while Carmack was the technical wizard, Romero was every bit as important in regards to getting those games to pop with the character and attention to detail -- maybe more than any other person at ID at the time. He deserves his props too, and I think its awesome he's still so engaged with these games and helping keeping them going after all these years.
dkonofalski 8y ago
A lot of the time, John Romero (thinking he could make everyone his bitch) was often painted as the Steve Jobs to John Carmack's Woz. Carmack really had most of the technical talent but little of the personality or boisterousness to properly market id's games. Romero on the other hand started off as the nerdy kid who got popular and kinda let it get to his head. He's way more humble now and I still think he's a cool guy but, even back then, magazines and media were always trying to portray them as allegories to other tech figures when they really weren't much like them at all.
Reedx 8y ago
> and was never really technical That's a misconception. In fact Romero made a lot of games entirely by himself and has been coding throughout his career. Check out his programming credits: https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,817/ https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,8...
packetslave 8y ago
From romerogames.ie: Q: Are you in touch with the original DOOM® team? A: Yes, we talk from time to time. I see Adrian a fair bit since he has a place here in Ireland (The Heritage in Killenard). I also talk with Tom (Hall) and American (McGee) every once in a while. I’m in contact with John where there’s something specific that we both have interest in. Reading between the lines: no, they're not friends.
- DavidNielsen 8y ago
  I suspect it’s more that Carmack isn’t one to reminisce to the same degree as Romero. Romero clearly makes games because he loves playing them, whereas Carmack does so as a technical challenge. For Romero, Doom is a highlight of his life for emotional reasons, Carmack, on the other hand, mostly seems to view a game being fun as an unnecessary side effect of it being technically impressive. They are different types of people, and they both are probably adults at this point, at least sufficiently to acknowledge that their common ground is having a beer and discussing cool new stuff once in a while rather than the style of friendship which would involve being willing to take a bullet for one another. If their interests intersect then they can talk and be excited but those points are too fewer to call it a deep friendship. It is mutual appreciation of technology and cool stuff. I would not read into it that they are unfriendly though, just that the type of friendship is bounded by interests and passions and I doubt either one has hard feelings about the past.

WAthrowaway 8y ago

Romero was fairly technical - he did a large chunk of the level design and coding around that with the editor. I think him and Tom Hall split that work.

acdanger 8y ago

I read the book Masters of Doom a few years ago and they did a good job portraying them as creative rivals with clashing personalities. I don't know if they've reconciled in recent years and I've never heard about Romero working at a gas station. Any source for that? https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Culture-ebook/dp/B000FBFNL0 https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Cult...

ydnaclementine 8y ago
gas station is bit of a troll comment, but this picture of Romero loves to get spread: i.imgur.com/qD7Jr.png
whatever_dude 8y ago
Literally the last thing Masters of Doom talks about is how Carmack and Romero are still friends. Maybe not best buddies - they have completely different personalities - but I don't think there's much animosity between them. There's no basis for the claim he's working at a gas station. He runs a game development company in Ireland.

newnewpdro 8y ago

I don't know if they're still friends, but there's clearly been some animosity in the past. Carmack isn't constantly humping the successes of his distant past trying to use them to generate hype and interest in himself, even though he's been largely responsible for them. Romero just seems like a slacker, riding on the coattails of those early shared successes, milking the association dry.

dkonofalski 8y ago
Romero was just as responsible for the success of id as Carmack was. He wrote the tools and editors the team used to get everything into the game and was probably the single biggest proponent of opening up the game to the public and allowing for custom content. As pointed out in the OP post, he was also the one who both came up with the idea and the name for Deathmatch which, although it would have eventually found its way into culture through another game, was really the reason that DooM became as big as it did.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  Id Software succeeded despite Romero, just look at Daikatana/Ion Storm.
  - dkonofalski 8y ago
    That's a very revisionist view of their development taking into account that the Daikatana/Ion Storm debacle never would have come about if it wasn't for DooM.
    - jeffbax 8y ago
      Agreed. Look I enjoy a good Daikatana joke like any other, but while Carmack was the technical wizard, Romero was every bit as important in regards to getting those games to pop with the character and attention to detail -- maybe more than any other person at ID at the time. He deserves his props too, and I think its awesome he's still so engaged with these games and helping keeping them going after all these years.

dkonofalski 8y ago

A lot of the time, John Romero (thinking he could make everyone his bitch) was often painted as the Steve Jobs to John Carmack's Woz. Carmack really had most of the technical talent but little of the personality or boisterousness to properly market id's games. Romero on the other hand started off as the nerdy kid who got popular and kinda let it get to his head. He's way more humble now and I still think he's a cool guy but, even back then, magazines and media were always trying to portray them as allegories to other tech figures when they really weren't much like them at all.

Reedx 8y ago

> and was never really technical That's a misconception. In fact Romero made a lot of games entirely by himself and has been coding throughout his career. Check out his programming credits: https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,817/ https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,8...

packetslave 8y ago

From romerogames.ie: Q: Are you in touch with the original DOOM® team? A: Yes, we talk from time to time. I see Adrian a fair bit since he has a place here in Ireland (The Heritage in Killenard). I also talk with Tom (Hall) and American (McGee) every once in a while. I’m in contact with John where there’s something specific that we both have interest in. Reading between the lines: no, they're not friends.

DavidNielsen 8y ago
I suspect it’s more that Carmack isn’t one to reminisce to the same degree as Romero. Romero clearly makes games because he loves playing them, whereas Carmack does so as a technical challenge. For Romero, Doom is a highlight of his life for emotional reasons, Carmack, on the other hand, mostly seems to view a game being fun as an unnecessary side effect of it being technically impressive. They are different types of people, and they both are probably adults at this point, at least sufficiently to acknowledge that their common ground is having a beer and discussing cool new stuff once in a while rather than the style of friendship which would involve being willing to take a bullet for one another. If their interests intersect then they can talk and be excited but those points are too fewer to call it a deep friendship. It is mutual appreciation of technology and cool stuff. I would not read into it that they are unfriendly though, just that the type of friendship is bounded by interests and passions and I doubt either one has hard feelings about the past.