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BitTorrent started out without a DHT, and so requires metadata and a torrent file to start downloading. IPFS has a unique, global DHT as a matter of principle,

BitTorrent started out without a DHT, and so requires metadata and a torrent file to start downloading. IPFS has a unique, global DHT as a matter of principle, and so, only requires the hash of the file to start downloading. Everyone gets the same bootstrap nodes, and then is part of the same DHT, with a common lookup mechanism relying on Kademlia. On the other hand, I feel like IPFS is not as advanced as dat in relevant ways. IPFS is not good for file edition, while dat has systems that simplify modification of even large files and merging of structured files.

antocv 8y ago
Bittorrent transport layer, peer-to-peer is not encrypted, neither was IPFS last time I checked. Is it now? Has that changed? There is nothing stopping Bittorrent clients from agreeing on "this dht will be global", and similary, what stops IPFS clients/peers from forming a different DHT? Nothing as far as I know, not like scuttlebutt which has a transport-layer network-wide key. What about trackers, bittorrent can but does not work well without trackers, so its not really according to me, decentralized, since some peer is more equal than another peer. IPFS is meh, datproject is where its at.
- kaffee 8y ago
  IPFS has perhaps 2,000 times the resources ($) of dat. (Raised via the filecoin sale.) Surely that must count for a little.
  - willio58 8y ago
    It should, but it might end up not.
  - antocv 8y ago
    Considering how much resources, github starts, and fanbois IPFS has, and yet the network layer is still shit, bandwidth not utilized to fullest. Instead of just reusing bittorrents piece-per-peer-exchange-protocol (that greedy not perfect algorithm, forgot its name) - which can saturate even high end links, they invented bitswap, full with bugs, then decided lets make filecoin instead, like a bartering engine of exchanging pieces. datproject also can saturate my 250mbit connection.
    - mStreamTeam 8y ago
      Thanks for posting. Never heard of DAT before but it looks to be exactly the BitTorrent alternative I've been looking for
      - macawfish 8y ago
        Check out hyperdb and hyperdrive (implementations of the core replicable data structures used in dat)!
    - macawfish 8y ago
      One more note: dat's implementation is quite modular, the hyper* libraries are designed to be replicated in a network-agnostic way. (Theoretically you can do this with IPFS too, but I love how dat is implemented!)
      - colemickens 8y ago
        I'm trying to get a foothold in this space (this space being whatever the area of camlistore/perkeep - ipfs - dat - etc. I've also been excited that Dat seems to be investing a Rust implementation that would presumably make Dat accessible from any language that can interoperate with C/Rust.
        macawfish 8y ago
        Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on the rust implementation of hyperdb!
  - brighton36 8y ago
    It might make it count for less, considering the liability it now has to make investors whole
    - ric2b 8y ago
      It was an ICO, there are no such liabilities.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
zaarn 8y ago
BitTorrent has Infohashes which allow you to download a torrent merely by entering the hash (not to be confused with magnet links, which may also be just pointing towards the infohash)
- ntninja 8y ago
  True, but one big caveat with BitTorrent is that if you change 1 byte in the whole (often multi-file) thing the info-hash will be different and you'll end up in a new DHT entry all by yourself. With IPFS you'd still share all the other blocks of content with the whole network, only the modified block will be “yours alone”. Where this happens to be particularly annoying with BitTorrent are aggregate Torrents: You have a bunch of separate files available for download (think TV series or books) each forming its own DHT node. Then somebody decides to create an aggregate torrent (such as libgen's “1000 books” torrents) and offers that for convenience or efficiency reasons. Will the clients that previously downloaded the individual files share them with this new torrent? No! Because the new Torrent “is different” even if each of it's files are byte-by-byte identical. Could BitTorrent be upgraded to allow for this? Probably, but it'd be radical paradigm-shift requiring a redesign of everything (“BitTorrent 2.0”). So why not start from scratch with a new protocol entirely?
  - zaarn 8y ago
    There are actually several protocol updates in the works (and some fundamental work like pubsub has been finished) to enable torrents that can be upgraded, it doesn't require a radical paradigm-shift at all. A protocol that does what torrent does but better would be dat://, IPFS is terrible at being BitTorrent but better.

antocv 8y ago

Bittorrent transport layer, peer-to-peer is not encrypted, neither was IPFS last time I checked. Is it now? Has that changed? There is nothing stopping Bittorrent clients from agreeing on "this dht will be global", and similary, what stops IPFS clients/peers from forming a different DHT? Nothing as far as I know, not like scuttlebutt which has a transport-layer network-wide key. What about trackers, bittorrent can but does not work well without trackers, so its not really according to me, decentralized, since some peer is more equal than another peer. IPFS is meh, datproject is where its at.

kaffee 8y ago
IPFS has perhaps 2,000 times the resources ($) of dat. (Raised via the filecoin sale.) Surely that must count for a little.
- willio58 8y ago
  It should, but it might end up not.
- antocv 8y ago
  Considering how much resources, github starts, and fanbois IPFS has, and yet the network layer is still shit, bandwidth not utilized to fullest. Instead of just reusing bittorrents piece-per-peer-exchange-protocol (that greedy not perfect algorithm, forgot its name) - which can saturate even high end links, they invented bitswap, full with bugs, then decided lets make filecoin instead, like a bartering engine of exchanging pieces. datproject also can saturate my 250mbit connection.
  - mStreamTeam 8y ago
    Thanks for posting. Never heard of DAT before but it looks to be exactly the BitTorrent alternative I've been looking for
    - macawfish 8y ago
      Check out hyperdb and hyperdrive (implementations of the core replicable data structures used in dat)!
  - macawfish 8y ago
    One more note: dat's implementation is quite modular, the hyper* libraries are designed to be replicated in a network-agnostic way. (Theoretically you can do this with IPFS too, but I love how dat is implemented!)
    - colemickens 8y ago
      I'm trying to get a foothold in this space (this space being whatever the area of camlistore/perkeep - ipfs - dat - etc. I've also been excited that Dat seems to be investing a Rust implementation that would presumably make Dat accessible from any language that can interoperate with C/Rust.
      - macawfish 8y ago
        Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on the rust implementation of hyperdb!
- brighton36 8y ago
  It might make it count for less, considering the liability it now has to make investors whole
  - ric2b 8y ago
    It was an ICO, there are no such liabilities.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

zaarn 8y ago

BitTorrent has Infohashes which allow you to download a torrent merely by entering the hash (not to be confused with magnet links, which may also be just pointing towards the infohash)

ntninja 8y ago
True, but one big caveat with BitTorrent is that if you change 1 byte in the whole (often multi-file) thing the info-hash will be different and you'll end up in a new DHT entry all by yourself. With IPFS you'd still share all the other blocks of content with the whole network, only the modified block will be “yours alone”. Where this happens to be particularly annoying with BitTorrent are aggregate Torrents: You have a bunch of separate files available for download (think TV series or books) each forming its own DHT node. Then somebody decides to create an aggregate torrent (such as libgen's “1000 books” torrents) and offers that for convenience or efficiency reasons. Will the clients that previously downloaded the individual files share them with this new torrent? No! Because the new Torrent “is different” even if each of it's files are byte-by-byte identical. Could BitTorrent be upgraded to allow for this? Probably, but it'd be radical paradigm-shift requiring a redesign of everything (“BitTorrent 2.0”). So why not start from scratch with a new protocol entirely?
- zaarn 8y ago
  There are actually several protocol updates in the works (and some fundamental work like pubsub has been finished) to enable torrents that can be upgraded, it doesn't require a radical paradigm-shift at all. A protocol that does what torrent does but better would be dat://, IPFS is terrible at being BitTorrent but better.