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Ironically, as a couple assholes buzzed by me today on the sidewalk in Atlanta, I imagined one of the people running me over and the scooter company fighting to

Ironically, as a couple assholes buzzed by me today on the sidewalk in Atlanta, I imagined one of the people running me over and the scooter company fighting to eschew liability once I made a legal claim. People are gonna die on these things and kill other people if they haven't already. These scooters have no place in my city.

kinkrtyavimoodh 8y ago
Would it be okay if they were required to drive in bike lanes? I think public safety concerns such as the ones you raised are very important, but I feel slightly baffled at what I perceive as an almost curmudgeonly, visceral dislike for them :(
- wavefunction 8y ago
  I assume they would be required to use bike lanes in most American cities. I am concerned about the liability involved. A local journalist here in Austin was hit by a drunk guy on a scooter badly enough to dent her driver-side door and render the door inoperative. Then he claimed she hit him. His auto insurance, if he has any doesn't cover his usage of electric scooters. So she was facing a liability for fixing the car, perhaps some sort of insurance fraud on his part, AND her insurance was going to list an incidence of her "striking a pedestrian." Fortunately she found out there was some CCTV footage that exonerated her, but all of that just so some drunk a--hole can zoom around on a scooter and the scooter companies make money?
  - tick_tock_tick 8y ago
    It sounds like it's the exact same situation as if they owned their own scooter or bike and crashed into the car.
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 8y ago
    How does it typically work if I am riding my own bike or scooter and something like this accident happened? Most people don't carry liability insurance for their bicycles, skateboards etc.
    - dfxm12 8y ago
      If you get into an accident, call the cops. If the other party is drunk, they'll definitely make note of it. If you make a claim and the other party doesn't have insurance (it's unlikely the law requires someone to have liability insurance for their bike) and you need to make a claim, you could be SOL, but that's really a problem with how insurance companies operate.
- linksnapzz 8y ago
  In many cities, two-wheeled vehicles are required to not be on the sidewalk. I'll bet parent is equally annoyed by being almost run down by bicyclists while on the sidewalk....
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    All true. Bicycles can go 20mph, vs pedestrians' 2mph. Not a good fit. Scooters have to be even worse (heavier, worse collisions).
    - C1sc0cat 8y ago
      Faster than that I have see bikes going more than 20 in London - and blasting through junctions at a read light.
  - codyb 8y ago
    I absolutely hate when bikes fly past me on the sidewalk. You can rarely hear them coming (I don't wear headphones or anything), and they'll zip by with enough speed to cause serious harm. What if I had stepped to the side? Or done a stretch and moved my arm to the side? I'm not trying to be in physical therapy for a year or more because you can't walk your bike from the nearest corner to wherever you intend to park it.
- dfxm12 8y ago
  Have some empathy. If something almost ran you over a few hours ago, it's perfectly normal to have a visceral dislike for it. As far as requiring these things be in bike lanes, it's all well and good to say that. But at least in my city, there seems to be a ton of confusion from bike riders, cars and pedestrians alike about what the exact laws are, let alone reliable enforcement of these laws. Cops are rarely going to see misuse anyway, so that wouldn't have helped the parent poster.
whoiskevin 8y ago
Confusing. Are you wanting to make a legal claim against Toyota, Ford, Chevy, etc. if someone drives an automobile in a way that makes you have to file a legal claim? This comes across as just "get off my lawn" sort of reaction.
- BoorishBears 8y ago
  The scooter sharing company isn't (necessarily) the manufacturer in your analogy. This is like Ford rented someone a car for off-roading with FWD, no seatbelts and racing slicks, didn't ask for proof of a license or any experience driving at all, and they ended up driving off a cliff.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Your comment sounds a lot like "joggers have no place on my bike path" or "the road is for cars, not bikes" Scooters solve a niche in the "not quite big enough to be regulated like a motor vehicle" transportation segment. There's no inherent reason they can't be used in public spaces. The only reason scooters are an "issue" is because they are new and that newness results in them existing in a legal gray area that causes people to feel entitled to all the speed of real vehicles with all of the responsibility to operate safely that a pedestrian has (i.e. none other than your understanding of physics and desire not to be hit by other traffic). This "issue" will be solved eventually if scooters do become popular enough to take part in accidents actually harm people with any meaningful regularity.
- linksnapzz 8y ago
  >Your comment sounds a lot like "joggers have no place on my bike path" or "the road is for cars, not bikes" Bikes on roads are required to obey the same signals and markings cars do, as well as staking in their lane (if one exists). Plenty of bike paths have separate lanes for walkers/joggers and bikes...the closing speed of one can be an order of magnitude higher than the other.... >The only reason scooters are an "issue" is because they are new and that newness No, operating a powered vehicle on sidewalks is nowhere near as novel as you think it is, and the courts should have no difficulty addressing the fining/prosecution of those that do so. I don't know why people think "battery-electric scooter/skateboard" requires a paradigm shift in how to define a moving violation. >This "issue" will be solved eventually if scooters do become popular enough to take part in accidents actually harm people with any meaningful regularity. Great. We just need a sufficient number of electric-scooter related deaths and injuries to overcome the natural inertia of the criminal justice system &&|| trial bar. Then someone will fix the problem.

kinkrtyavimoodh 8y ago

Would it be okay if they were required to drive in bike lanes? I think public safety concerns such as the ones you raised are very important, but I feel slightly baffled at what I perceive as an almost curmudgeonly, visceral dislike for them :(

wavefunction 8y ago
I assume they would be required to use bike lanes in most American cities. I am concerned about the liability involved. A local journalist here in Austin was hit by a drunk guy on a scooter badly enough to dent her driver-side door and render the door inoperative. Then he claimed she hit him. His auto insurance, if he has any doesn't cover his usage of electric scooters. So she was facing a liability for fixing the car, perhaps some sort of insurance fraud on his part, AND her insurance was going to list an incidence of her "striking a pedestrian." Fortunately she found out there was some CCTV footage that exonerated her, but all of that just so some drunk a--hole can zoom around on a scooter and the scooter companies make money?
- tick_tock_tick 8y ago
  It sounds like it's the exact same situation as if they owned their own scooter or bike and crashed into the car.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 8y ago
  How does it typically work if I am riding my own bike or scooter and something like this accident happened? Most people don't carry liability insurance for their bicycles, skateboards etc.
  - dfxm12 8y ago
    If you get into an accident, call the cops. If the other party is drunk, they'll definitely make note of it. If you make a claim and the other party doesn't have insurance (it's unlikely the law requires someone to have liability insurance for their bike) and you need to make a claim, you could be SOL, but that's really a problem with how insurance companies operate.
linksnapzz 8y ago
In many cities, two-wheeled vehicles are required to not be on the sidewalk. I'll bet parent is equally annoyed by being almost run down by bicyclists while on the sidewalk....
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  All true. Bicycles can go 20mph, vs pedestrians' 2mph. Not a good fit. Scooters have to be even worse (heavier, worse collisions).
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    Faster than that I have see bikes going more than 20 in London - and blasting through junctions at a read light.
- codyb 8y ago
  I absolutely hate when bikes fly past me on the sidewalk. You can rarely hear them coming (I don't wear headphones or anything), and they'll zip by with enough speed to cause serious harm. What if I had stepped to the side? Or done a stretch and moved my arm to the side? I'm not trying to be in physical therapy for a year or more because you can't walk your bike from the nearest corner to wherever you intend to park it.
dfxm12 8y ago
Have some empathy. If something almost ran you over a few hours ago, it's perfectly normal to have a visceral dislike for it. As far as requiring these things be in bike lanes, it's all well and good to say that. But at least in my city, there seems to be a ton of confusion from bike riders, cars and pedestrians alike about what the exact laws are, let alone reliable enforcement of these laws. Cops are rarely going to see misuse anyway, so that wouldn't have helped the parent poster.

whoiskevin 8y ago

Confusing. Are you wanting to make a legal claim against Toyota, Ford, Chevy, etc. if someone drives an automobile in a way that makes you have to file a legal claim? This comes across as just "get off my lawn" sort of reaction.

BoorishBears 8y ago
The scooter sharing company isn't (necessarily) the manufacturer in your analogy. This is like Ford rented someone a car for off-roading with FWD, no seatbelts and racing slicks, didn't ask for proof of a license or any experience driving at all, and they ended up driving off a cliff.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

Your comment sounds a lot like "joggers have no place on my bike path" or "the road is for cars, not bikes" Scooters solve a niche in the "not quite big enough to be regulated like a motor vehicle" transportation segment. There's no inherent reason they can't be used in public spaces. The only reason scooters are an "issue" is because they are new and that newness results in them existing in a legal gray area that causes people to feel entitled to all the speed of real vehicles with all of the responsibility to operate safely that a pedestrian has (i.e. none other than your understanding of physics and desire not to be hit by other traffic). This "issue" will be solved eventually if scooters do become popular enough to take part in accidents actually harm people with any meaningful regularity.

linksnapzz 8y ago
>Your comment sounds a lot like "joggers have no place on my bike path" or "the road is for cars, not bikes" Bikes on roads are required to obey the same signals and markings cars do, as well as staking in their lane (if one exists). Plenty of bike paths have separate lanes for walkers/joggers and bikes...the closing speed of one can be an order of magnitude higher than the other.... >The only reason scooters are an "issue" is because they are new and that newness No, operating a powered vehicle on sidewalks is nowhere near as novel as you think it is, and the courts should have no difficulty addressing the fining/prosecution of those that do so. I don't know why people think "battery-electric scooter/skateboard" requires a paradigm shift in how to define a moving violation. >This "issue" will be solved eventually if scooters do become popular enough to take part in accidents actually harm people with any meaningful regularity. Great. We just need a sufficient number of electric-scooter related deaths and injuries to overcome the natural inertia of the criminal justice system &&|| trial bar. Then someone will fix the problem.