5 ms·

TLDR: if, in a post apocalyptic world, your home laboratory is still running, you are able to grow penicillium or aspergillus cultures. These may, or likely may

TLDR: if, in a post apocalyptic world, your home laboratory is still running, you are able to grow penicillium or aspergillus cultures. These may, or likely may not, produce penicillin..

msla 8y ago
I'm curious about what, exactly, the people who take this seriously think they're preparing for. In a scenario severe enough you're trying to make your own antibiotics, you can assume hospitals aren't functioning, which means civil society is gone. You can't assume the government is gone, BTW: Every power vacuum will get filled, one way or the other, and there are plenty of unrecognized governments which are as governmental as they need to be to enforce their idea of order in a defined region. Therefore... you, the prepper who was responsible enough to squirrel away tools and knowledge and supplies, are a target. If the government is trying to rebuild, it's going to be seizing supplies and, possibly, conscripting anyone capable of using those supplies who didn't have the good sense to leave when the getting was good. If the government isn't trying to rebuild... well, since when have gangs not looted anyone with stuff worth having? It comes down to a survivalist fantasy, which amounts to one person, one family, one karass, against the world. A small, intimate group, as opposed to the granfalloon with guns which is called a military. Well... when a small group goes up against a big group, the small group is almost always fated to lose. "Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society." --Thomas Jefferson to Isaac McPherson, 1813. ME 13:333
- senectus1 8y ago
  People have been playing too much Fallout.
  - setquk 8y ago
    I think it’s more that people don’t exercise their survival instinct much these days as everything mostly just works. The biggest risk is not having toilet paper for the average person. Thus some people construct scenarios to fill the hole. For me, watching world war Z was stressful enough.
  - stale 8y ago
    There's no such thing as too much Fallout :D
    - senectus1 8y ago
      my son would agree....
- noonespecial 8y ago
  The funniest ones for me are the ones who focus obsessively on some things while missing glaringly obvious others: The guy with 2 AR15's, a water reclamation system and 7 years of macaroni in his basement but is so out of shape he can't run up a flight of stairs. Want to really prepare for TEOTWAWKI? Try jogging.
  - mac01021 8y ago
    One of the two AR15s is for propulsion.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - ataturk 8y ago
    Only two? Most of the people you are describing have >100 guns and more ammunition than they could use in two lifetimes. And yes, they're disgustingly obese.
  - FlyMoreRockets 8y ago
    Even better, try gardening. Food and exercise at the same time!
- jcims 8y ago
  What about cases like Katrina and Puerto Rico, where there are no local services but there are zero threats to the sovereignty of the federal government? You don't need to survive Mad Max style for decades, you just need to make it a month or two until roads are open and power is back on. In this case having a stash of antibiotics could mean the difference between life and death for someone that's injured, and as the article points out there's no real good reason to grow your own when you can buy serviceable alternatives online.
  - nuguy 8y ago
    Exactly. Living your life with zero buffer against fluctuations in the availability of life-critical materials is just as stupid as people who are prepping for zombie invasions. One guy thinks nothing will ever happen and the other thinks society is a transient entity. They are both fantasies. If you aren’t ready for earthquakes, fires, financial disasters and etc then you have a short attention span or you’re just lazy. Besides all this, consolidation and integration of life-support is the way of the future. If you look at society as one big system, it makes a lot of sense to have lots of redundant units rather than all units depending on one central resource. Sole and batteries for example harden the whole country against equipment failure, terror attack, negligence and natural disasters. With a single power plant any instance of one of those things could bring down huge numbers of houses. Technology is making it possible to produce some of the things you need in home, so there is a funny convergence of preppers and technologists.
    - mattmanser 8y ago
      No idea why you've been d/ved, as you say, there's so many potential, but low risk, scenarios. Even in America and the EU we've all got a 0.5%, maybe 0.1% every year that something could go very wrong. Most likely is that it doesn't spiral, like the 2008 financial crisis, but there was a real, but small, chance that could have gone much worse. His comment not only is ignoring real-life examples that have happened within his life time (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Venezula, Katrina, Puerto Rico, etc.), he's also postulating that these new governmental structures would magically spring up over night, rather than taking years or even decades to emerge. I'm no prepper, but I do feel that I am knowingly taking a risk, albeit a very small one, by not being one. If I had a family to care for, I would definitely be more prepared with 3 months food and some emergency medical supplies beyond a first aid kit. It's a small enough risk that it will probably not happen for my generation or my country, but it does happen. I also often don't buy insurance for things I think aren't worth it, but it's still a deliberate choice rather than sleep walking into it. It's almost on the same risk percentage as Home Insurance, so if you're insuring your home, why aren't you 'spending' a little time each year prepping? Just because it's socially unacceptable, but home insurance is regarded as socially acceptable?
- arkh 8y ago
  http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/a-survival-q-a-living-through-shtf-in-the-middle-of-a-war-zone_10252011 http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/a-survival-q-... Conclusion: trust only your family.
- ahje 8y ago
  I live in the countryside. During winters (starting about this time of the year), the roads here are barely usable under normal conditions. We occasionally end up not being able to get to the store for two or three days due to heavy snowfall. We also have occasional power outages caused by heavy snowfall. I'd say it's only a matter of time before we're hit by a severe blizzard and we need to manage on our own for a week or two. We do have antibiotics and other basic medical supplies at home, for such occasions. We also keep enough food and firewood for at least two weeks, sometimes more. As for making one's own antibiotics, one of the most commonly repeated survivalist mantras is that one should always have and maintain a skill that will be useful in order to rebuild, in case society collapses. That way, if we do end up with zombies roaming the streets, Illuminati death squads chasing survivors, and a runaway AI trying to exterminate humanity, you will have something to offer the groups trying to rebuild. Personally, I know how to make booze. My neighbors do, indeed, seem to appreciate that skill. :D
- imhoguy 8y ago
  > In a scenario severe enough you're trying to make your own antibiotics, you can assume hospitals aren't functioning, which means civil society is gone. The problem of the society is that more and more people count on "How to..." lookup on the Internet and can hardly imagine empty pharmacy or shop shelves. I worry that the civil society is too much dependent on centralized services prone to interruption: specialized knowledge, production lines, banks, methods of payment, medical drugs, mobile networks, electricity, drinking water and petrol supply, government, ISPs, online services. > It comes down to a survivalist fantasy, which amounts to one person, one family, one karass, against the world. No, it is to help a community around you to survive a crisis. Local or global - that doesn't matter. I think the take away from all prep efforts is preserving basic tools, knowledge and skills in the society. In case of crisis, the prepared community can quickly rebuild basic services and sustain itself before a help arrives. Also it can share or barter with other communities.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    I wonder if these should be diffused in secondary education.
- mirimir 8y ago
  > You can't assume the government is gone, BTW ... Right. It'll be some mix of police, ex-military and professional criminals. Edit: Reminds me of Harlan Ellison's A Boy and His Dog. The film adaptation was OK too.
- pjc50 8y ago
  Sadly it's easily possible to get into situations where the hospitals and society are "functioning", but civil society has decided not to give you any medicine. It seems to be an occasional problem in the US, but also happened during e.g. the Greek financial crisis. Antibiotics are one thing, but I know several people who are dependent on insulin, and more who are dependent on more complex cutting-edge medication. This is why we need to keep the supply lines open, civil society civil, and international trade operating. The fact that the UK is now seemingly going into "state prepper" mode for an avoidable self-inflicted disaster is starting to frighten me. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/brexit-no-deal-insulin-diabetes-stockpile-medication-novo-nordisk-eu-ema-sanofi-a8522276.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/brexit-no-deal-ins...
  - ada1981 8y ago
    “it's easily possible to get into situations where the hospitals and society are "functioning", but civil society has decided not to give you any medicine.” We are currently in such a situation in the United States.
- ataturk 8y ago
  You're just trying to make yourself feel better or superior and you don't much like it when other people are better prepared, capable of looking after themselves, and otherwise self-sufficient, do you? It upsets you, doesn't it? It's okay, you're not alone. There are armies of government workers who behave like you. They want all of us to live on their plantations. Whether or not "prepping" is a useful activity, e.g. the stockpiling of goods, the MENTALITY of it is highly useful--that people can come around to the idea that there isn't secret knowledge that only a few can have, is what is most important. Democratized knowledge and being able to "make do" used to be a time-honored tradition in the US. It's only in recent memory that people have gotten too comfortable with just in time supply lines which, as we see all too often, can be gone in an instant. And then there's the cashless crowd, constantly pushing us away from being able to trade between each other without a third party involved. We never needed these assholes before and we don't need them now, either.
ginko 8y ago
Might not work so well if the apocalypse was caused by an antibiotic-resistant plague outbreak.
arnsholt 8y ago
Also, I think this most likely produces Penicillin G, which has to be given intravenously because it's broken down by stomach acid...
- Angostura 8y ago
  Or could useful be spread on open infected wounds.
AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
Only if the post-apocalyptic world still has sliced bread.

TLDR: if, in a post apocalyptic world, your home laboratory is still running, you are able to grow penicillium or aspergillus cultures. These may, or likely may not, produce penicillin..

msla 8y ago

I'm curious about what, exactly, the people who take this seriously think they're preparing for. In a scenario severe enough you're trying to make your own antibiotics, you can assume hospitals aren't functioning, which means civil society is gone. You can't assume the government is gone, BTW: Every power vacuum will get filled, one way or the other, and there are plenty of unrecognized governments which are as governmental as they need to be to enforce their idea of order in a defined region. Therefore... you, the prepper who was responsible enough to squirrel away tools and knowledge and supplies, are a target. If the government is trying to rebuild, it's going to be seizing supplies and, possibly, conscripting anyone capable of using those supplies who didn't have the good sense to leave when the getting was good. If the government isn't trying to rebuild... well, since when have gangs not looted anyone with stuff worth having? It comes down to a survivalist fantasy, which amounts to one person, one family, one karass, against the world. A small, intimate group, as opposed to the granfalloon with guns which is called a military. Well... when a small group goes up against a big group, the small group is almost always fated to lose. "Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society." --Thomas Jefferson to Isaac McPherson, 1813. ME 13:333

senectus1 8y ago
People have been playing too much Fallout.
- setquk 8y ago
  I think it’s more that people don’t exercise their survival instinct much these days as everything mostly just works. The biggest risk is not having toilet paper for the average person. Thus some people construct scenarios to fill the hole. For me, watching world war Z was stressful enough.
- stale 8y ago
  There's no such thing as too much Fallout :D
  - senectus1 8y ago
    my son would agree....
noonespecial 8y ago
The funniest ones for me are the ones who focus obsessively on some things while missing glaringly obvious others: The guy with 2 AR15's, a water reclamation system and 7 years of macaroni in his basement but is so out of shape he can't run up a flight of stairs. Want to really prepare for TEOTWAWKI? Try jogging.
- mac01021 8y ago
  One of the two AR15s is for propulsion.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ataturk 8y ago
  Only two? Most of the people you are describing have >100 guns and more ammunition than they could use in two lifetimes. And yes, they're disgustingly obese.
- FlyMoreRockets 8y ago
  Even better, try gardening. Food and exercise at the same time!
jcims 8y ago
What about cases like Katrina and Puerto Rico, where there are no local services but there are zero threats to the sovereignty of the federal government? You don't need to survive Mad Max style for decades, you just need to make it a month or two until roads are open and power is back on. In this case having a stash of antibiotics could mean the difference between life and death for someone that's injured, and as the article points out there's no real good reason to grow your own when you can buy serviceable alternatives online.
- nuguy 8y ago
  Exactly. Living your life with zero buffer against fluctuations in the availability of life-critical materials is just as stupid as people who are prepping for zombie invasions. One guy thinks nothing will ever happen and the other thinks society is a transient entity. They are both fantasies. If you aren’t ready for earthquakes, fires, financial disasters and etc then you have a short attention span or you’re just lazy. Besides all this, consolidation and integration of life-support is the way of the future. If you look at society as one big system, it makes a lot of sense to have lots of redundant units rather than all units depending on one central resource. Sole and batteries for example harden the whole country against equipment failure, terror attack, negligence and natural disasters. With a single power plant any instance of one of those things could bring down huge numbers of houses. Technology is making it possible to produce some of the things you need in home, so there is a funny convergence of preppers and technologists.
  - mattmanser 8y ago
    No idea why you've been d/ved, as you say, there's so many potential, but low risk, scenarios. Even in America and the EU we've all got a 0.5%, maybe 0.1% every year that something could go very wrong. Most likely is that it doesn't spiral, like the 2008 financial crisis, but there was a real, but small, chance that could have gone much worse. His comment not only is ignoring real-life examples that have happened within his life time (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Venezula, Katrina, Puerto Rico, etc.), he's also postulating that these new governmental structures would magically spring up over night, rather than taking years or even decades to emerge. I'm no prepper, but I do feel that I am knowingly taking a risk, albeit a very small one, by not being one. If I had a family to care for, I would definitely be more prepared with 3 months food and some emergency medical supplies beyond a first aid kit. It's a small enough risk that it will probably not happen for my generation or my country, but it does happen. I also often don't buy insurance for things I think aren't worth it, but it's still a deliberate choice rather than sleep walking into it. It's almost on the same risk percentage as Home Insurance, so if you're insuring your home, why aren't you 'spending' a little time each year prepping? Just because it's socially unacceptable, but home insurance is regarded as socially acceptable?
arkh 8y ago
http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/a-survival-q-a-living-through-shtf-in-the-middle-of-a-war-zone_10252011 http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/a-survival-q-... Conclusion: trust only your family.
ahje 8y ago
I live in the countryside. During winters (starting about this time of the year), the roads here are barely usable under normal conditions. We occasionally end up not being able to get to the store for two or three days due to heavy snowfall. We also have occasional power outages caused by heavy snowfall. I'd say it's only a matter of time before we're hit by a severe blizzard and we need to manage on our own for a week or two. We do have antibiotics and other basic medical supplies at home, for such occasions. We also keep enough food and firewood for at least two weeks, sometimes more. As for making one's own antibiotics, one of the most commonly repeated survivalist mantras is that one should always have and maintain a skill that will be useful in order to rebuild, in case society collapses. That way, if we do end up with zombies roaming the streets, Illuminati death squads chasing survivors, and a runaway AI trying to exterminate humanity, you will have something to offer the groups trying to rebuild. Personally, I know how to make booze. My neighbors do, indeed, seem to appreciate that skill. :D
imhoguy 8y ago
> In a scenario severe enough you're trying to make your own antibiotics, you can assume hospitals aren't functioning, which means civil society is gone. The problem of the society is that more and more people count on "How to..." lookup on the Internet and can hardly imagine empty pharmacy or shop shelves. I worry that the civil society is too much dependent on centralized services prone to interruption: specialized knowledge, production lines, banks, methods of payment, medical drugs, mobile networks, electricity, drinking water and petrol supply, government, ISPs, online services. > It comes down to a survivalist fantasy, which amounts to one person, one family, one karass, against the world. No, it is to help a community around you to survive a crisis. Local or global - that doesn't matter. I think the take away from all prep efforts is preserving basic tools, knowledge and skills in the society. In case of crisis, the prepared community can quickly rebuild basic services and sustain itself before a help arrives. Also it can share or barter with other communities.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  I wonder if these should be diffused in secondary education.
mirimir 8y ago
> You can't assume the government is gone, BTW ... Right. It'll be some mix of police, ex-military and professional criminals. Edit: Reminds me of Harlan Ellison's A Boy and His Dog. The film adaptation was OK too.
pjc50 8y ago
Sadly it's easily possible to get into situations where the hospitals and society are "functioning", but civil society has decided not to give you any medicine. It seems to be an occasional problem in the US, but also happened during e.g. the Greek financial crisis. Antibiotics are one thing, but I know several people who are dependent on insulin, and more who are dependent on more complex cutting-edge medication. This is why we need to keep the supply lines open, civil society civil, and international trade operating. The fact that the UK is now seemingly going into "state prepper" mode for an avoidable self-inflicted disaster is starting to frighten me. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/brexit-no-deal-insulin-diabetes-stockpile-medication-novo-nordisk-eu-ema-sanofi-a8522276.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/brexit-no-deal-ins...
- ada1981 8y ago
  “it's easily possible to get into situations where the hospitals and society are "functioning", but civil society has decided not to give you any medicine.” We are currently in such a situation in the United States.
ataturk 8y ago
You're just trying to make yourself feel better or superior and you don't much like it when other people are better prepared, capable of looking after themselves, and otherwise self-sufficient, do you? It upsets you, doesn't it? It's okay, you're not alone. There are armies of government workers who behave like you. They want all of us to live on their plantations. Whether or not "prepping" is a useful activity, e.g. the stockpiling of goods, the MENTALITY of it is highly useful--that people can come around to the idea that there isn't secret knowledge that only a few can have, is what is most important. Democratized knowledge and being able to "make do" used to be a time-honored tradition in the US. It's only in recent memory that people have gotten too comfortable with just in time supply lines which, as we see all too often, can be gone in an instant. And then there's the cashless crowd, constantly pushing us away from being able to trade between each other without a third party involved. We never needed these assholes before and we don't need them now, either.

ginko 8y ago

Might not work so well if the apocalypse was caused by an antibiotic-resistant plague outbreak.

arnsholt 8y ago

Also, I think this most likely produces Penicillin G, which has to be given intravenously because it's broken down by stomach acid...

Angostura 8y ago
Or could useful be spread on open infected wounds.

AdmiralAsshat 8y ago

Only if the post-apocalyptic world still has sliced bread.