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> Everything you base your comment on is a huge assumption. No, it's a huge assumption to create the "free will" theory with no evidence and then argue against

> Everything you base your comment on is a huge assumption. No, it's a huge assumption to create the "free will" theory with no evidence and then argue against the opposite position where I'm using what is observable in nature with science. It's like religious people that argue against people that don't believe in a god. > but I can definitely say that you’re putting a lot of belief in it being true without any real evidence No you can't, physics, neuroscience, computer science, and mathematics all favor determinism. If you chime out quantum mechanics, go search my comment history. > Taking your thought process and building off the idea that everything is deterministic, we can frame the concept of “free will” as something that’s defined within that image of reality. Yah if you acknowledge you're a puppet by external forces and love your strings. Your freedom is love for how your controlled because it fits you and how you have no real control yourself but are fine with it. Yet, I myself don't consider that definition of free will what most people think and to me it just doesn't exist because that definition would be nonsense. > Additionally, why should you show sympathy to those in worse situations if everything is deterministic? Humanity makes progress when removing illusions from society and being rational. Society shouldn't be punishing persons who were unfortunate by the universe. Society should fix the problem of what resulted in a person having an undesired outcome and then rehabilitating the person back into society. Same goes for social, health, and financial problems. > If society feels a need to punish criminals and remove them from society that’s another deterministic outcome that you yourself should know makes no difference either way in the grand scheme of things. Yah, whatever happens is destined to happen and similar to how society once viewed the world as flat and until some persons came along to get the idiotic majority to understand. Time brings progress or the opposite and it's all fated to happen. I hope you're not trying to make an argument against understanding reality by the mere premise of you would dislike how it really is. > If society feels a need to punish criminals and remove them from society that’s another deterministic outcome that you yourself should know makes no difference either way in the grand scheme of things. See above. > Why someone would be deterministically wired to counter an argument by using their belief of a deterministic world on HN is beyond me though. Short answer: Go study determinism.

fitmax 8y ago
>Humanity makes progress when removing illusions from society and being rational. Society shouldn't be punishing persons who were unfortunate by the universe. Society should fix the problem of what resulted in a person having an undesired outcome and then rehabilitating the person back into society. Same goes for social, health, and financial problems. So if you believe in group selection has a large role in how society is shaped and will evolve then perhaps society's best interest is only to rehabilitate the troubled person only if the expected cost is lower than the expected reward. If you don't believe in group selection is that crucial then maybe it would be apparent why people like to punish if you take a look at game theory and experimental results with public good games. Keep in mind you are also making the mistake of assuming society has some sort of telos, or that moralism realism is true. So in that sense, if you ask me China's government seems very sensible in several policy areas because it doesn't give a shit about individuals.
- intralizee 8y ago
  I’m not making any mistake that I’m aware about from reading what I wrote. You’re implying unknown knowledge about me and when I haven’t even shared my opinion. Simply, I haven’t stated my view on if morals & ethics are ever cared for by people in power. I do believe humanity fundamentally relies on them and to reach the highest divine status for society in functioning and when the universe is without free will to everyone. Fundamentally I observe that important to the majority of people and who are religious. They are conditioned to see it as after death though. Anyway cost of society is something I don’t even believe is worth pursuing a discussion about with me anyway. I have witnessed from my own personal experiences with how medical treatments are handled completely irrational to fixing my issue. I’m not fully aware to understand why but I assume some unknown agenda. I’m doubtful in any case, the persons going into professions from the start want that to be so. China is interesting and I wouldn’t be surprised to find out their leaders operate with the knowledge of free will being an illusion. However it doesn’t mean they’re doing it how everyone would and with the same knowledge. Some people will treat the misfortunate as praedamnation and not care to make that go away. Believing birth into royalty of some sort is all that matters and shouldn’t change. However the deterministic universe has been progressing in the opposite direction of that.

fitmax 8y ago

>Humanity makes progress when removing illusions from society and being rational. Society shouldn't be punishing persons who were unfortunate by the universe. Society should fix the problem of what resulted in a person having an undesired outcome and then rehabilitating the person back into society. Same goes for social, health, and financial problems. So if you believe in group selection has a large role in how society is shaped and will evolve then perhaps society's best interest is only to rehabilitate the troubled person only if the expected cost is lower than the expected reward. If you don't believe in group selection is that crucial then maybe it would be apparent why people like to punish if you take a look at game theory and experimental results with public good games. Keep in mind you are also making the mistake of assuming society has some sort of telos, or that moralism realism is true. So in that sense, if you ask me China's government seems very sensible in several policy areas because it doesn't give a shit about individuals.

intralizee 8y ago
I’m not making any mistake that I’m aware about from reading what I wrote. You’re implying unknown knowledge about me and when I haven’t even shared my opinion. Simply, I haven’t stated my view on if morals & ethics are ever cared for by people in power. I do believe humanity fundamentally relies on them and to reach the highest divine status for society in functioning and when the universe is without free will to everyone. Fundamentally I observe that important to the majority of people and who are religious. They are conditioned to see it as after death though. Anyway cost of society is something I don’t even believe is worth pursuing a discussion about with me anyway. I have witnessed from my own personal experiences with how medical treatments are handled completely irrational to fixing my issue. I’m not fully aware to understand why but I assume some unknown agenda. I’m doubtful in any case, the persons going into professions from the start want that to be so. China is interesting and I wouldn’t be surprised to find out their leaders operate with the knowledge of free will being an illusion. However it doesn’t mean they’re doing it how everyone would and with the same knowledge. Some people will treat the misfortunate as praedamnation and not care to make that go away. Believing birth into royalty of some sort is all that matters and shouldn’t change. However the deterministic universe has been progressing in the opposite direction of that.