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TLDR; Michael Norton did the survey of people with networth > $1M and most said they need 2 or 3 times more. People with networth > $100M also don't feel satisf

TLDR; Michael Norton did the survey of people with networth > $1M and most said they need 2 or 3 times more. People with networth > $100M also don't feel satisfied because they tend to answer the question "Am I better off than last year?" by comparing to other folks who did even better than them. It looks to me that if you are in $3M to $10M bucket, you have financial freedom to live low key upper-middle class life. This is what Tim Ferris refers to as "New Rich". However when you are above $10M, something else happens. While you have financial freedom, you are also just starting to taste freedom of will. Sooner or later it might get annoying that you must wake up at 5 AM because that's the only flight available OR that you can't get the penthouse suit because someone more wealthier decided to book it out for entire year. You still depend on publicly available utilities fiercely competed upon. Unlike your peers with $100M you can't own GulfStreams or have $25M Malibu mentions overlooking Pacific with infinity pools. When you get to $100M, things change again. Now you do have little gulfstream but it's far cry from private 747 with king size bedroom, office, bar and a chef. Sure, you got that mention in Malibu but that large paradise estate in Hawaii with its own beach and waterfalls is out of your reach. When you meet your billionaire friends in blue waters of Greek island of Creet, your little yatch looks like baby's first toy missing things like its own sub and helipad. Life is good but not that good because resources at your disposal have still limitations to achieve maximum possible freedom of will. People tell you how awesome you are but you keep finding new limiting ways you are restricted to act by your will every single day. I think its only above $3B that you are in realm of pure score keeping, the quality of material possessions cannot be improved further and freedom of will is pretty much maximized. Now you are truly limited by time, and much less by ideas. So until you get in to that top 1000 individuals, it's going to sting one way or another.

scottlegrand2 8y ago
This is very similar with what I tell people: that every time you put another zero on your net worth, your world changes. The follow-up is that you probably shouldn't be taking life advice for your immediate situation from people who are more than one zero in either direction away from you because they're giving advice for their world, not yours. my personal financial life goal is never to be worth more than $10M and I am knocking that go a lot of the park right now! Life after $10M, from knowing people with that kind of money, just gets more and more complicated and no one seems truly happy, as they drown in first world problems.
- HighPlainsDrftr 8y ago
  I hope so - I have been saying for a while, once I get to 10m, I'm going to quit working and start focusing on doing things to help other people. I figure 4% = 400k, take 200k and reinvest it, and take the other 200k and use it. Its christmas time, I'd like to go to my local box store and buy out the lay-aways. Donate some hams and turkeys to the poor. As long as I've done what I can to take care of myself and family, I think its important to start helping other people. One of our big flaws in society is we try to categorize people too much. That leads to the wealthy looking down on others. Middle class looking down on others. The poor looking down upon who they can. It is not necessary. Once you have food, home, and some basic luxuries, all you need is to save for the retirement days.
badpun 8y ago
This read a lot like an Onion satire, I sincerely hope that only a handful minority of people would be susceptible to such wants inflation. These wants honestly sound like desperate ways to distract yourself with toys and experiences until you die. Also, your analysis on having maximum freedom of will at $3B is flawed in that money can only buy so much. For example, you can be the world's wealthiest man but that won't buy you healthy body, good looks or a charitable personality.
- tk75x 8y ago
  > These wants honestly sound like desperate ways to distract yourself with toys and experiences until you die. If you aren't working for your subsistence, what else are you doing with your life but finding distractions until your time is up? > [money] won't buy you healthy body, good looks or a charitable personality. Money can directly buy you good looks and a healthy body through plastic surgery, more fashionable clothes/accessories, as well as the free time and ability to hire a personal trainer and equipment necessary to get fit. World class doctors are now available as well to help extend your healthy life as long as possible. I do agree with you about the personality.
  - badpun 8y ago
    > If you aren't working for your subsistence, what else are you doing with your life but finding distractions until your time is up? Of course, it's dependent on the person. I perosnally believe that our time should be spend trying to make the world a tiny better place - even through seemingly mundane actions like open source contributions, involvement in local politics or just personal development - trying to be a more genuine, thoughtful and warm person. The opposite, i.e. concentrating on yourself only, leads to the said distraction threadmill and is not pretty. > Money can directly buy you good looks and a healthy body through plastic surgery, more fashionable clothes/accessories, as well as the free time and ability to hire a personal trainer and equipment necessary to get fit. World class doctors are now available as well to help extend your healthy life as long as possible. These are still relatively marginal improvements though. An ugly, small, disproportionate 60 year old man with a bland personality will not be able to turn himself into someone who gives women a faster heart rate, no matter how much he spends on various improvements. The sad reality of the hedonistic lifestyle is that money does not give you a good place on the lader - you can buy gadgets like a yacht with a submarine, but girls in the club would still much rather sleep with a beautiful 20-year old broke guy than with the old billionaire.
rocannon 8y ago
Regarding "freedom of will": I quit my job when I accumulated about $500K in net worth. (Needless to say, I did not live in SV. However, my rent was about $1200/mo.) The day after I quit my job and I didn't have to go in to work anymore, I felt such an extreme sense of joy that I don't think I ever felt in my life. At the time, my feeling was that "the exercise of free will" was the cause of this bliss - similar to what you're saying about freedom of will. I didn't have to report to anyone, there was literally nothing that I had to do which did not come from within me. This feeling lasted for about a year. I moved to a cheaper rental. My cash runway lasted about 5 years, and I felt really pretty good about life for the first 2-3 years. After that, I started to become more worried about whether I'd have to go back to work, or what kind of life I'd be able to live without that. What I'm trying to say is that you can get to the freedom of will state with far less than $1M. It may not last forever. But I highly recommend doing it. It may be especially sweet for people like me, who have delayed gratification for decades.

scottlegrand2 8y ago

This is very similar with what I tell people: that every time you put another zero on your net worth, your world changes. The follow-up is that you probably shouldn't be taking life advice for your immediate situation from people who are more than one zero in either direction away from you because they're giving advice for their world, not yours. my personal financial life goal is never to be worth more than $10M and I am knocking that go a lot of the park right now! Life after $10M, from knowing people with that kind of money, just gets more and more complicated and no one seems truly happy, as they drown in first world problems.

HighPlainsDrftr 8y ago
I hope so - I have been saying for a while, once I get to 10m, I'm going to quit working and start focusing on doing things to help other people. I figure 4% = 400k, take 200k and reinvest it, and take the other 200k and use it. Its christmas time, I'd like to go to my local box store and buy out the lay-aways. Donate some hams and turkeys to the poor. As long as I've done what I can to take care of myself and family, I think its important to start helping other people. One of our big flaws in society is we try to categorize people too much. That leads to the wealthy looking down on others. Middle class looking down on others. The poor looking down upon who they can. It is not necessary. Once you have food, home, and some basic luxuries, all you need is to save for the retirement days.

badpun 8y ago

This read a lot like an Onion satire, I sincerely hope that only a handful minority of people would be susceptible to such wants inflation. These wants honestly sound like desperate ways to distract yourself with toys and experiences until you die. Also, your analysis on having maximum freedom of will at $3B is flawed in that money can only buy so much. For example, you can be the world's wealthiest man but that won't buy you healthy body, good looks or a charitable personality.

tk75x 8y ago
> These wants honestly sound like desperate ways to distract yourself with toys and experiences until you die. If you aren't working for your subsistence, what else are you doing with your life but finding distractions until your time is up? > [money] won't buy you healthy body, good looks or a charitable personality. Money can directly buy you good looks and a healthy body through plastic surgery, more fashionable clothes/accessories, as well as the free time and ability to hire a personal trainer and equipment necessary to get fit. World class doctors are now available as well to help extend your healthy life as long as possible. I do agree with you about the personality.
- badpun 8y ago
  > If you aren't working for your subsistence, what else are you doing with your life but finding distractions until your time is up? Of course, it's dependent on the person. I perosnally believe that our time should be spend trying to make the world a tiny better place - even through seemingly mundane actions like open source contributions, involvement in local politics or just personal development - trying to be a more genuine, thoughtful and warm person. The opposite, i.e. concentrating on yourself only, leads to the said distraction threadmill and is not pretty. > Money can directly buy you good looks and a healthy body through plastic surgery, more fashionable clothes/accessories, as well as the free time and ability to hire a personal trainer and equipment necessary to get fit. World class doctors are now available as well to help extend your healthy life as long as possible. These are still relatively marginal improvements though. An ugly, small, disproportionate 60 year old man with a bland personality will not be able to turn himself into someone who gives women a faster heart rate, no matter how much he spends on various improvements. The sad reality of the hedonistic lifestyle is that money does not give you a good place on the lader - you can buy gadgets like a yacht with a submarine, but girls in the club would still much rather sleep with a beautiful 20-year old broke guy than with the old billionaire.

rocannon 8y ago

Regarding "freedom of will": I quit my job when I accumulated about $500K in net worth. (Needless to say, I did not live in SV. However, my rent was about $1200/mo.) The day after I quit my job and I didn't have to go in to work anymore, I felt such an extreme sense of joy that I don't think I ever felt in my life. At the time, my feeling was that "the exercise of free will" was the cause of this bliss - similar to what you're saying about freedom of will. I didn't have to report to anyone, there was literally nothing that I had to do which did not come from within me. This feeling lasted for about a year. I moved to a cheaper rental. My cash runway lasted about 5 years, and I felt really pretty good about life for the first 2-3 years. After that, I started to become more worried about whether I'd have to go back to work, or what kind of life I'd be able to live without that. What I'm trying to say is that you can get to the freedom of will state with far less than $1M. It may not last forever. But I highly recommend doing it. It may be especially sweet for people like me, who have delayed gratification for decades.