3 ms·

Side note, but I've been seeing this propaganda pop up the past few weeks all over, and now I'm starting to see it come from people I don't think are spreading

by lovich 8y ago

Side note, but I've been seeing this propaganda pop up the past few weeks all over, and now I'm starting to see it come from people I don't think are spreading propaganda, like yourself. The Nazis were no socialists. Socialism isn't part of naziism. Yes it was in their name, but republic is in China's official name, and north korea is know as the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea. We wouldn't claim either country is a democracy. By throwing in Nazis and socialism in the same pot, you are equating those two ideas in people's minds when they are absolutely not

abc-xyz 8y ago
How deeply you wish to read Hitler and Xi Jinping or China and Nazi Germany comparison is up to you. The two dictators and countries share a lot of similarities. The key point is that they're both hungry for power, evil and brutal, wish to force their ideology upon the world, and most importantly, are in a position where it's possible for them to achieve their goals. Do I believe that Hitler/Xi Jinping were/are the most evil people on earth? No, but unlike others, they're both in a position where they can conquer the world (no matter how much we want to pretend otherwise) and cause great suffering to people outside their own borders. To dismiss the comparison because one put jews in concentration camps while the other is putting muslims, or whatever ideological difference you can find, is missing the point.
- lovich 8y ago
  I find that the comparison between them as dictators has merit. No question there. Same on the camps they are putting specific ethnic "others" into, to get their people to rally behind them. My point specifically was about equating Nazis to socialists. There's been a concentrated campaign the past few weeks to say that Nazis were socialists, so socialists today are the real Nazis and not the guys with SS tattoos who are advocating for ethnic purity. If you don't like socialists for whatever reason, that's a position you can hold. I just don't like this muddying of waters for political reasons. Also again, I don't think you are spreading this on purpose. I've seen it start on alt right influenced subreddits and seen it spread the past few weeks, to the point that I am now seeing it casually mentioned in neutral forums as an offhand fact.
  - EGreg 8y ago
    Just to be clear, I thought the propaganda you were referring to was comparing China to pre WW2 Nazi Germany, like Steve Bannon did in his book. I had written a long post about the similarities but thought better of it - the more I analyed them (eg Tibet) the more I realied China is closer to the USSR. So I scrapped the whole thing and wrote the post above. No, they were all in fact socialists. You may not like it, and I do make a YUGE distinction between socialism and social democracy. For example Bernie is wrong, he is a social democrat and not a “democratic socialist”. Scandinavian countries are social democracies. Having said that, I admit that there are other TYPES of socialism that are not acknowledged. Like Kibbutzes and the Public Stock Market. Socialism is just collective ownership of the means of production. But when most people say socialism, they mean State Socialism.
    - lovich 8y ago
      Please explain how Nazis were socialists. It wasn't ownership by the people it's was ownership by the party
      - EGreg 8y ago
        Well, state socialism is ownership by “the people” through the state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksgemeinschaft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksgemeinschaft Take Volkswagen for example: the people’s car. Isn’t it similar to China’s initiatives to build electric cars and buses, or to own the corporations? The problem wasn’t the socialism but the nationalization of everything: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_People%27s_Welfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_People%27s_...

by lovich 8y ago

abc-xyz 8y ago

How deeply you wish to read Hitler and Xi Jinping or China and Nazi Germany comparison is up to you. The two dictators and countries share a lot of similarities. The key point is that they're both hungry for power, evil and brutal, wish to force their ideology upon the world, and most importantly, are in a position where it's possible for them to achieve their goals. Do I believe that Hitler/Xi Jinping were/are the most evil people on earth? No, but unlike others, they're both in a position where they can conquer the world (no matter how much we want to pretend otherwise) and cause great suffering to people outside their own borders. To dismiss the comparison because one put jews in concentration camps while the other is putting muslims, or whatever ideological difference you can find, is missing the point.

lovich 8y ago
I find that the comparison between them as dictators has merit. No question there. Same on the camps they are putting specific ethnic "others" into, to get their people to rally behind them. My point specifically was about equating Nazis to socialists. There's been a concentrated campaign the past few weeks to say that Nazis were socialists, so socialists today are the real Nazis and not the guys with SS tattoos who are advocating for ethnic purity. If you don't like socialists for whatever reason, that's a position you can hold. I just don't like this muddying of waters for political reasons. Also again, I don't think you are spreading this on purpose. I've seen it start on alt right influenced subreddits and seen it spread the past few weeks, to the point that I am now seeing it casually mentioned in neutral forums as an offhand fact.
- EGreg 8y ago
  Just to be clear, I thought the propaganda you were referring to was comparing China to pre WW2 Nazi Germany, like Steve Bannon did in his book. I had written a long post about the similarities but thought better of it - the more I analyed them (eg Tibet) the more I realied China is closer to the USSR. So I scrapped the whole thing and wrote the post above. No, they were all in fact socialists. You may not like it, and I do make a YUGE distinction between socialism and social democracy. For example Bernie is wrong, he is a social democrat and not a “democratic socialist”. Scandinavian countries are social democracies. Having said that, I admit that there are other TYPES of socialism that are not acknowledged. Like Kibbutzes and the Public Stock Market. Socialism is just collective ownership of the means of production. But when most people say socialism, they mean State Socialism.
  - lovich 8y ago
    Please explain how Nazis were socialists. It wasn't ownership by the people it's was ownership by the party
    - EGreg 8y ago
      Well, state socialism is ownership by “the people” through the state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksgemeinschaft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksgemeinschaft Take Volkswagen for example: the people’s car. Isn’t it similar to China’s initiatives to build electric cars and buses, or to own the corporations? The problem wasn’t the socialism but the nationalization of everything: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_People%27s_Welfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_People%27s_...