5 ms·

Europe's problem is simply high taxes, inefficient bureaucracy, and over-welfare. Particularly, payroll taxes, which in some countries (France) are at 50%. The

Europe's problem is simply high taxes, inefficient bureaucracy, and over-welfare. Particularly, payroll taxes, which in some countries (France) are at 50%. These hugely complicate hiring employees, and just encourage cash payments and tax avoidance. Taxes should instead be shifted to harmful outputs and products, like food sweeteners and fossil fuels. Next, bureaucracies need to be be slimmed down and modernised. All EU countries should offer the ability to transact with their bureaucracy (tax returns, permits etc.) in the native language or English. Finally, welfare should be ended for anyone fit and healthy below a certain age, and the retirement age taken to 70 immediately. Pensions should be phased out for anyone under 40 currently. The refugee intake should be taken to zero, and borders strictly enforced, since the net economic contribution of MENA migrants currently is negative. Access to Master's degrees should be limited to only the best students, to encourage people to enter the workforce earlier and to allow a reduction in education spending. Through all this there could be a huge reduction in the tax burden, targeted to eliminate payroll taxes (perhaps in combination with replacing it with higher income taxes, the way Scandinavians do) and reduce VAT. Income tax/payroll tax savings could be preferentially targeted to couples with 3 or more children, to encourage higher birthrates.

oAlbe 8y ago
Woah, slow down there Benito.
dcposch 8y ago
> The refugee intake should be taken to zero, and borders strictly enforced, since the net economic contribution of MENA migrants currently is negative Delete this sentence and the rest of your post is mostly good. Simplifying bureaucracy? Mandating English as an option? Capping payroll taxes at some reasonable level? All good ideas. But the idea that we should turn away people fleeing poverty and violence because their "net economic contribution... is currently negative" is racist and gross. Economic growth is nice, but it's a means to an end. The first step is to have a society worth growing.
- pas 8y ago
  > the rest of your post is mostly good. No, it's not. It's hogwash. Especially the education one. Income inequality is a lot more serious problem than uncapped payroll taxes.
- beerlord 8y ago
  The people who arrive in Europe are economic migrants. The real ones are in refugee camps in Lebanon and Turkey. By 2020 only half the refugees who arrived in Germany a few years ago are forecast to be employed, with the current unemployment rate 40%. [1] I have seen firsthand (Christian) refugees offered settlement in Poland, who after receiving handouts from the local community including a car, packed everything up and drove to Germany overnight to join an ethnic community there. Besides, if we care about helping refugees, we can help 10x as many people in their home regions than in Europe, for the same cost. Really we should be addressing the underlying problem - inequality and overpopulation - by devoting all of our foreign aid budget to providing education and contraception to women. I'm not against migration per-se, as long as it is from culturally compatible countries. If Europe needs cheap workers there are millions of them to be found in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia etc. Even further afield, there are millions more in South America. These people already share a culture similar to or identical to Europeans, and already speak a language similar to a native European one. Europe should control explicitly who it allows into its borders, not outsource the job to criminal people smugglers. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/bea8507e-64cb-11e8-90c2-9563a0613e56 https://www.ft.com/content/bea8507e-64cb-11e8-90c2-9563a0613...
roymurdock 8y ago
all of these fiscally conservative moves would be met with massive backlash in france, italy, the UK, and other parts of Europe, where spending on social welfare programs is a relatively large percent of the federal budget and a point of pride for many furthermore you would be met with a huge backlash from wealthy center/progressive proponents over your anti-immigrant policy. many in power are wealthy enough to see anti-immigrant sentiment as racism rather than an economic necessity (unlike the yellow jacket protestors who are probably making around 30k euro per year - the median in france, and for whom a 25c/gallon increase in gas prices is catastrophic) i'd be interested to hear your ideas for fiscal expansion - what should the government be prioritizing spending on to increase economic growth, rather than simply making the cuts you've suggested
- beerlord 8y ago
  Europe needs less Government. The problem is that these tax changes are just never linked to tax cuts and actual living improvements for the everyday workers. A proposal to phase out pensions for people currently aged under 40, in coordination with a large decrease in the Payroll tax rate (and strict orders to business to pass it along entirely to employees) would be met with reasonable popularity. Europe artificially inflates the cost of labour with its huge taxes, and wonders why there are problems with unemployment and tax evasion. It artificially inflates the cost of living with huge VAT rates, and wonder why people don't have more children or consume more. Have a look at what Georgia (country) is doing. They have to compete on their own merits and do so with amazingly efficient taxes: * 20% flat income tax * No social security or employment taxes * up to 1% land value tax * 18% VAT * 15% corporate tax * Excise taxes on drugs and fossil fuels As a result the country is developing very well despite its lack of natural resources, unfortunate geographic positioning, and prior Russian invasion. European bureaucrats like to defend heavy taxes and redistribution because it creates a need for their services. We should tax people less, and let them decide what to spend their money on. Along the way remove as many impediments for employment as possible, and tax the goods which have negative externalities (fossil fuels, drugs, food sweeteners) ... If you really want to set the cat amongst the pigeons, we can look at an entirely different tax regime, where each person and business is expected to pay a fixed tax rate per year, merely for existing (scaled to size of business, and probably age and health status). Then, they are free to earn what they like, independent of tax. I don't see why Government shouldn't operate on the same principles as a business, with transparency and efficiency.
superwayne 8y ago
While I do agree that the high taxes on labor are harmful, I really don't want to live in a country where "pensions are phased out", one has to work until 70 at least and public welfare is non-existant for young people. Luckily, I don't have to and to be honest, I prefer paying 50% taxes but also getting a lot in return. World class public transport (in my city), free university education (including master), pretty good health care, pension which amounts to 80% or inflated life income, lot's of art and culture...
pas 8y ago
> All EU countries should offer the ability to transact with their bureaucracy (tax returns, permits etc.) in the native language or English. They .. already do this... usually fully electronically, usually done by the government, no need for 3rd party tax filing software. > Finally, welfare should be ended for anyone fit and healthy below a certain age, and the retirement age taken to 70 immediately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_in_Europe it's already usually 65 for men and 60 for women (it's 65-65 in France, Spain and Germany, 66-66 in the UK and Ireland, 68-68 in the Netherlands) > Pensions should be phased out for anyone under 40 currently. There are a lot of people getting disability pension, are you thinking about that? I'm not familiar with any other situation for receiving "pension" under 40. > The refugee intake should be taken to zero, and borders strictly enforced, since the net economic contribution of MENA migrants currently is negative. Citation needed. Furthermore, the current problem of Europe (and it's basically the only real and serious one) is the decreasing and aging population. Immigration is almost the perfect tool to solve this. > Access to Master's degrees should be limited to only the best students, to encourage people to enter the workforce earlier and to allow a reduction in education spending. Education spending is the best way to lift people out of poverty, it correlates best with future income. It pays for itself. And it's not even the biggest expense. (Healthcare and pensions are.) > Income tax/payroll tax savings could be preferentially targeted to couples with 3 or more children, to encourage higher birthrates. It's already happening (and has been going on for decades) in a lot of countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit#Comparison_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit#Comparison_in_Eu... So, all in all, citation needed for "Europe's problem is simply high taxes, inefficient bureaucracy, and over-welfare."
- beerlord 8y ago
  You cannot replace the European population with an African or Middle Eastern population and expect the same outcomes. Europeans are over-educated. It is too common to be studying Master's degrees into your late 20s for topics like Psychology, Language. Master's degrees should be limited to the hard sciences. 30% overqualified for their current job. [1] Europe needs to make hard decisions like this, because the current status quo of low fertility rates and near-poverty existences across the continent are unsustainable. America broadly shows that the low-tax route is better, apart from their poor healthcare system (and since healthcare should be non-profit, with a focus on cheap treatment and prevention, Government should handle that area of the economy). [1] https://qz.com/12551/30-of-european-workers-are-overeducated-for-their-jobs/ https://qz.com/12551/30-of-european-workers-are-overeducated...

oAlbe 8y ago

Woah, slow down there Benito.

dcposch 8y ago

> The refugee intake should be taken to zero, and borders strictly enforced, since the net economic contribution of MENA migrants currently is negative Delete this sentence and the rest of your post is mostly good. Simplifying bureaucracy? Mandating English as an option? Capping payroll taxes at some reasonable level? All good ideas. But the idea that we should turn away people fleeing poverty and violence because their "net economic contribution... is currently negative" is racist and gross. Economic growth is nice, but it's a means to an end. The first step is to have a society worth growing.

pas 8y ago
> the rest of your post is mostly good. No, it's not. It's hogwash. Especially the education one. Income inequality is a lot more serious problem than uncapped payroll taxes.
beerlord 8y ago
The people who arrive in Europe are economic migrants. The real ones are in refugee camps in Lebanon and Turkey. By 2020 only half the refugees who arrived in Germany a few years ago are forecast to be employed, with the current unemployment rate 40%. [1] I have seen firsthand (Christian) refugees offered settlement in Poland, who after receiving handouts from the local community including a car, packed everything up and drove to Germany overnight to join an ethnic community there. Besides, if we care about helping refugees, we can help 10x as many people in their home regions than in Europe, for the same cost. Really we should be addressing the underlying problem - inequality and overpopulation - by devoting all of our foreign aid budget to providing education and contraception to women. I'm not against migration per-se, as long as it is from culturally compatible countries. If Europe needs cheap workers there are millions of them to be found in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia etc. Even further afield, there are millions more in South America. These people already share a culture similar to or identical to Europeans, and already speak a language similar to a native European one. Europe should control explicitly who it allows into its borders, not outsource the job to criminal people smugglers. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/bea8507e-64cb-11e8-90c2-9563a0613e56 https://www.ft.com/content/bea8507e-64cb-11e8-90c2-9563a0613...

roymurdock 8y ago

all of these fiscally conservative moves would be met with massive backlash in france, italy, the UK, and other parts of Europe, where spending on social welfare programs is a relatively large percent of the federal budget and a point of pride for many furthermore you would be met with a huge backlash from wealthy center/progressive proponents over your anti-immigrant policy. many in power are wealthy enough to see anti-immigrant sentiment as racism rather than an economic necessity (unlike the yellow jacket protestors who are probably making around 30k euro per year - the median in france, and for whom a 25c/gallon increase in gas prices is catastrophic) i'd be interested to hear your ideas for fiscal expansion - what should the government be prioritizing spending on to increase economic growth, rather than simply making the cuts you've suggested

beerlord 8y ago
Europe needs less Government. The problem is that these tax changes are just never linked to tax cuts and actual living improvements for the everyday workers. A proposal to phase out pensions for people currently aged under 40, in coordination with a large decrease in the Payroll tax rate (and strict orders to business to pass it along entirely to employees) would be met with reasonable popularity. Europe artificially inflates the cost of labour with its huge taxes, and wonders why there are problems with unemployment and tax evasion. It artificially inflates the cost of living with huge VAT rates, and wonder why people don't have more children or consume more. Have a look at what Georgia (country) is doing. They have to compete on their own merits and do so with amazingly efficient taxes: * 20% flat income tax * No social security or employment taxes * up to 1% land value tax * 18% VAT * 15% corporate tax * Excise taxes on drugs and fossil fuels As a result the country is developing very well despite its lack of natural resources, unfortunate geographic positioning, and prior Russian invasion. European bureaucrats like to defend heavy taxes and redistribution because it creates a need for their services. We should tax people less, and let them decide what to spend their money on. Along the way remove as many impediments for employment as possible, and tax the goods which have negative externalities (fossil fuels, drugs, food sweeteners) ... If you really want to set the cat amongst the pigeons, we can look at an entirely different tax regime, where each person and business is expected to pay a fixed tax rate per year, merely for existing (scaled to size of business, and probably age and health status). Then, they are free to earn what they like, independent of tax. I don't see why Government shouldn't operate on the same principles as a business, with transparency and efficiency.

superwayne 8y ago

While I do agree that the high taxes on labor are harmful, I really don't want to live in a country where "pensions are phased out", one has to work until 70 at least and public welfare is non-existant for young people. Luckily, I don't have to and to be honest, I prefer paying 50% taxes but also getting a lot in return. World class public transport (in my city), free university education (including master), pretty good health care, pension which amounts to 80% or inflated life income, lot's of art and culture...

pas 8y ago

> All EU countries should offer the ability to transact with their bureaucracy (tax returns, permits etc.) in the native language or English. They .. already do this... usually fully electronically, usually done by the government, no need for 3rd party tax filing software. > Finally, welfare should be ended for anyone fit and healthy below a certain age, and the retirement age taken to 70 immediately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_in_Europe it's already usually 65 for men and 60 for women (it's 65-65 in France, Spain and Germany, 66-66 in the UK and Ireland, 68-68 in the Netherlands) > Pensions should be phased out for anyone under 40 currently. There are a lot of people getting disability pension, are you thinking about that? I'm not familiar with any other situation for receiving "pension" under 40. > The refugee intake should be taken to zero, and borders strictly enforced, since the net economic contribution of MENA migrants currently is negative. Citation needed. Furthermore, the current problem of Europe (and it's basically the only real and serious one) is the decreasing and aging population. Immigration is almost the perfect tool to solve this. > Access to Master's degrees should be limited to only the best students, to encourage people to enter the workforce earlier and to allow a reduction in education spending. Education spending is the best way to lift people out of poverty, it correlates best with future income. It pays for itself. And it's not even the biggest expense. (Healthcare and pensions are.) > Income tax/payroll tax savings could be preferentially targeted to couples with 3 or more children, to encourage higher birthrates. It's already happening (and has been going on for decades) in a lot of countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit#Comparison_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit#Comparison_in_Eu... So, all in all, citation needed for "Europe's problem is simply high taxes, inefficient bureaucracy, and over-welfare."

beerlord 8y ago
You cannot replace the European population with an African or Middle Eastern population and expect the same outcomes. Europeans are over-educated. It is too common to be studying Master's degrees into your late 20s for topics like Psychology, Language. Master's degrees should be limited to the hard sciences. 30% overqualified for their current job. [1] Europe needs to make hard decisions like this, because the current status quo of low fertility rates and near-poverty existences across the continent are unsustainable. America broadly shows that the low-tax route is better, apart from their poor healthcare system (and since healthcare should be non-profit, with a focus on cheap treatment and prevention, Government should handle that area of the economy). [1] https://qz.com/12551/30-of-european-workers-are-overeducated-for-their-jobs/ https://qz.com/12551/30-of-european-workers-are-overeducated...