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Do you have any references to support the claim that bitcoin is legal tender? Legal tender must be accepted to extinguish a debt, by any party. Just because b

Do you have any references to support the claim that bitcoin is legal tender? Legal tender must be accepted to extinguish a debt, by any party. Just because bitcoin is not illegal doesn't make it legal tender. It may be used if all parties agree. I understand the first link you gave says that Germany accepts Bitcoin as legal tender, but that is from a misunderstanding of what legal tender is. German vendors are within their rights to refuse it and insist upon real legal tender.

tialaramex 8y ago
You're just going to run into loads of people who don't understand what "legal tender" is and, when you explain it, will insist that you must be wrong because they've heard that phrase and attached a different meaning (generally: a vaguely positive aura plus "it's money") For those reading along, a useful baseline to get you straight on legal tender is in countries where fiat currencies are just broadly assumed to be valuable any legal tender laws are basically just ornamentation. Scotland, for example, doesn't have any bank notes as legal tender, just some old coins. Nobody in Scotland doubts that the notes they have are valuable, but its laws don't bother explicitly privileging this as "legal tender". Nevertheless if you get on a bus in Edinburgh with a goose and some shiny rocks and try to barter, well, you'll be lucky if the other passengers let you back off in one piece, let alone to get an actual ride. "Exact cash fare only".
decentralised 8y ago
>Do you have any references to support the claim that bitcoin is legal tender? Yes I have linked to it. edit: In German: https://www.scribd.com/document/372651554/2018-02-27-Umsatzsteuerliche-Behandlung-Von-Bitcoin-Und-Anderen-Sog-Virtuellen-Waehrungen https://www.scribd.com/document/372651554/2018-02-27-Umsatzs...
- cromulent 8y ago
  No, you've linked to something that says it is OK to use it. You are misunderstanding what legal tender is. The European Commission says [1]: "Within the euro area, only the euro has the status of legal tender." "Yet...contractual parties are free to use...virtual currency schemes (e.g. Bitcoin). Although these are not official currencies and have no legal tender status, parties can agree to use them". Germany has not made Bitcoin legal tender. Don't fool yourself. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/euro/use-euro/euro-legal-tender_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/eu...
  - decentralised 8y ago
    Within the Euro area only the Euro has the status of legal tender but businesses settle in USD all the time. The link I provided is jurisprudence in Germany but it doesn't impact the whole of the EU. Malta might soon join though.
    - detaro 8y ago
      The German source you provided explicitly states that it is not legal tender, but "just" treated similarly as other currencies: buying bitcoin is recognized as exchanging other currencies, it can be used similarly in contracts, ...
      - decentralised 8y ago
        Can you tell me where? I must have honestly missed it and so must have all the other people who think this https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/19/bitcoin-unit-of-account-germany https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/19/bitcoin-u... is true.
        detaro 8y ago
        The Guardian article doesn't say it is legal tender either. Legal tender has a very specific meaning. The German source says that for some purposes it is "treated equally to legal tender" and that "exchanging virtual currencies to legal tender and back is tax free". Neither statement makes sense if it were legal tender. Its status for some purposes is similar to that of other non-Euro currencies (e.g. contracts between private parties agreeing on it etc), none of which are legal tender in Germany.
        decentralised 8y ago
        Ok that difference makes sense, thank you for the explanation. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are treated equally to legal tender in Germany.
- sorokod 8y ago
  In UK, Scotland is issuing it's own fiat money that is not a legal tender. See here https://www.scotbanks.org.uk/banknotes/legal-position.html https://www.scotbanks.org.uk/banknotes/legal-position.html

tialaramex 8y ago

You're just going to run into loads of people who don't understand what "legal tender" is and, when you explain it, will insist that you must be wrong because they've heard that phrase and attached a different meaning (generally: a vaguely positive aura plus "it's money") For those reading along, a useful baseline to get you straight on legal tender is in countries where fiat currencies are just broadly assumed to be valuable any legal tender laws are basically just ornamentation. Scotland, for example, doesn't have any bank notes as legal tender, just some old coins. Nobody in Scotland doubts that the notes they have are valuable, but its laws don't bother explicitly privileging this as "legal tender". Nevertheless if you get on a bus in Edinburgh with a goose and some shiny rocks and try to barter, well, you'll be lucky if the other passengers let you back off in one piece, let alone to get an actual ride. "Exact cash fare only".

decentralised 8y ago

>Do you have any references to support the claim that bitcoin is legal tender? Yes I have linked to it. edit: In German: https://www.scribd.com/document/372651554/2018-02-27-Umsatzsteuerliche-Behandlung-Von-Bitcoin-Und-Anderen-Sog-Virtuellen-Waehrungen https://www.scribd.com/document/372651554/2018-02-27-Umsatzs...

cromulent 8y ago
No, you've linked to something that says it is OK to use it. You are misunderstanding what legal tender is. The European Commission says [1]: "Within the euro area, only the euro has the status of legal tender." "Yet...contractual parties are free to use...virtual currency schemes (e.g. Bitcoin). Although these are not official currencies and have no legal tender status, parties can agree to use them". Germany has not made Bitcoin legal tender. Don't fool yourself. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/euro/use-euro/euro-legal-tender_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/eu...
- decentralised 8y ago
  Within the Euro area only the Euro has the status of legal tender but businesses settle in USD all the time. The link I provided is jurisprudence in Germany but it doesn't impact the whole of the EU. Malta might soon join though.
  - detaro 8y ago
    The German source you provided explicitly states that it is not legal tender, but "just" treated similarly as other currencies: buying bitcoin is recognized as exchanging other currencies, it can be used similarly in contracts, ...
    - decentralised 8y ago
      Can you tell me where? I must have honestly missed it and so must have all the other people who think this https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/19/bitcoin-unit-of-account-germany https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/19/bitcoin-u... is true.
      - detaro 8y ago
        The Guardian article doesn't say it is legal tender either. Legal tender has a very specific meaning. The German source says that for some purposes it is "treated equally to legal tender" and that "exchanging virtual currencies to legal tender and back is tax free". Neither statement makes sense if it were legal tender. Its status for some purposes is similar to that of other non-Euro currencies (e.g. contracts between private parties agreeing on it etc), none of which are legal tender in Germany.
        decentralised 8y ago
        Ok that difference makes sense, thank you for the explanation. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are treated equally to legal tender in Germany.
sorokod 8y ago
In UK, Scotland is issuing it's own fiat money that is not a legal tender. See here https://www.scotbanks.org.uk/banknotes/legal-position.html https://www.scotbanks.org.uk/banknotes/legal-position.html