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Given that the biggest threat humanity faces is climate change, support for crypto currencies in their current form is morally corrupt. Also I don’t see a reaso

Given that the biggest threat humanity faces is climate change, support for crypto currencies in their current form is morally corrupt. Also I don’t see a reason why I should buy into some scheme that disproportionately benefits early adopters. I’m already forced to participate in one tilted economic playing field, why expose myself to another one.

gammateam 8y ago
The majority of cryptocurrency mining by hash rate is done using renewable energy.
- IAmEveryone 8y ago
  Yeah. Because previously, China built all these hydro dams in the wilderness, unconnected to the grid?
  - gammateam 8y ago
    The connection to the grid doesnt make it a nonrenewable or an increased environmentally unsound proposition? The additional energy draw is using renewable sources for most of the mining hashrate
drb91 8y ago
I don’t see how it’s any better to put your money in the bank and have no control over how it’s invested—guns, tobacco, drugs, etc.
decentralised 8y ago
I bet you feel the same way about minerals whose extraction process is vastly more damaging to the environment. Early adopters benefit because they incur more risk than later adopters.
- coderzach 8y ago
  The problem is that if the state were to provide secure public-private key cryptographic identity, there would be absolutely no need for PoW or PoS. Eventually we'll figure that out, and all of this work will haven been useless.
- woodruffw 8y ago
  > I bet you feel the same way about minerals whose extraction process is vastly more damaging to the environment. I don't understand this reasoning: is "X is bad but Y is worse" supposed to convince people that X is actually good? I think everybody with sufficient information would agree that we should limit both harmful mineral extraction and the runaway energy usage of cryptocurrencies.
  - decentralised 8y ago
    >I don't understand this reasoning: is "X is bad but Y is worse" supposed to convince people that X is actually good? Maybe don't read things that are not written or said? My point is that you think cryptocurrencies have a negative impact on global warming so I think you probably feel the same way about mineral extraction. Most people will fight any new information that contradicts their held beliefs so I won't suggest you look at the use of renewable energy in cryptocurrency mining or try to convince you that most miners optimise their costs by using solar and hydro power.
    - woodruffw 8y ago
      > My point is that you think cryptocurrencies have a negative impact on global warming so I think you probably feel the same way about mineral extraction. Phrased as such, it sounds like you're calling me or the GP a hypocrite. But to be clear, I do care about mineral extraction, and I try to make choices as a consumer that limit my (relatively small) effect on the overall market. I have quite a few friends who work in the cryptocurrency space (either at ICO'd firms or as professional auditors), so I'm familiar with the economics of choosing clean energy sources. But that neither factors in the net increase in grid demand nor the double-bind of hydro power in places like China. So I don't think we're off the hook, morally speaking.
tim333 8y ago
If you're worried about climate change you can choose one that doesn't have proof of work (of the top 5, EOS and Stellar with maybe Ethereum to follow). Not sure about early adopters - if buying into early Amazon, Apple etc made the buyers rich is that a problem?
dsgriffin 8y ago
Not all cryptos are the same in this regard. DAG-based ones such as Nano use an absolutely tiny amount of electricity compared to Bitcoin: https://cryptodisrupt.com/nano-is-found-to-be-significantly-more-eco-friendly-than-bitcoin/ https://cryptodisrupt.com/nano-is-found-to-be-significantly-...
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  Hah! Nothing like recommending a "currency" that lost 97% of its value from it's all time high. Yeah. Sounds good. Where do I buy!? https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nano/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nano/
  - gskoylvgcfxd 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar#Value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar#Value
fastball 8y ago
If the promise of crypto plays out, it will have a huge positive impact on climate change. What a lot of people forget to realize when they talk about how much energy crypto uses is how much energy the systems that are currently in place are already using, which crypto has the potential to replace. One such example might be property ownership and title companies. Title companies are big business. They have large buildings, they have many employees. The sum total of the resources being used by title companies have a huge carbon footprint. Crypto could eliminate title companies. A blockchain is the perfect solution for storing records of property ownership in a way that is incredibly well-suited for the mostly digital age we find ourselves in, and would be vastly more efficient than the way we currently manage property ownership and transfer. If blockchain tech becomes relevant to the point where we should be concerned about its carbon footprint, that means it's replacing things which currently exist which already have a huge carbon footprint.
- rdiddly 8y ago
  A worthwhile argument, though it would benefit from having some actual magnitude numbers for comparison.
- ac29 8y ago
  > Crypto could eliminate title companies. A blockchain is the perfect solution Ah yes, nothing like losing the title to your house because you can't remember the password to decrypt your private key.
  - fastball 8y ago
    Why do you think you would need to maintain 100% ownership of your private key? The more relevant aspect of blockchain in this example is the hashed distributed ledger, not the transactional nature of it. In fact, there is no reason you'd need to use PKC type transactions at all.
- saati 8y ago
  Bitcoin uses as much electricity as a small sized country with industry and everything, all the banks in the world use way less energy.
randaouser 8y ago
Animal farming is the biggest cause climate change; before you try to rid the world of crypto, you can personally go vegan and make a larger impact

gammateam 8y ago

The majority of cryptocurrency mining by hash rate is done using renewable energy.

IAmEveryone 8y ago
Yeah. Because previously, China built all these hydro dams in the wilderness, unconnected to the grid?
- gammateam 8y ago
  The connection to the grid doesnt make it a nonrenewable or an increased environmentally unsound proposition? The additional energy draw is using renewable sources for most of the mining hashrate

drb91 8y ago

I don’t see how it’s any better to put your money in the bank and have no control over how it’s invested—guns, tobacco, drugs, etc.

decentralised 8y ago

I bet you feel the same way about minerals whose extraction process is vastly more damaging to the environment. Early adopters benefit because they incur more risk than later adopters.

coderzach 8y ago
The problem is that if the state were to provide secure public-private key cryptographic identity, there would be absolutely no need for PoW or PoS. Eventually we'll figure that out, and all of this work will haven been useless.
woodruffw 8y ago
> I bet you feel the same way about minerals whose extraction process is vastly more damaging to the environment. I don't understand this reasoning: is "X is bad but Y is worse" supposed to convince people that X is actually good? I think everybody with sufficient information would agree that we should limit both harmful mineral extraction and the runaway energy usage of cryptocurrencies.
- decentralised 8y ago
  >I don't understand this reasoning: is "X is bad but Y is worse" supposed to convince people that X is actually good? Maybe don't read things that are not written or said? My point is that you think cryptocurrencies have a negative impact on global warming so I think you probably feel the same way about mineral extraction. Most people will fight any new information that contradicts their held beliefs so I won't suggest you look at the use of renewable energy in cryptocurrency mining or try to convince you that most miners optimise their costs by using solar and hydro power.
  - woodruffw 8y ago
    > My point is that you think cryptocurrencies have a negative impact on global warming so I think you probably feel the same way about mineral extraction. Phrased as such, it sounds like you're calling me or the GP a hypocrite. But to be clear, I do care about mineral extraction, and I try to make choices as a consumer that limit my (relatively small) effect on the overall market. I have quite a few friends who work in the cryptocurrency space (either at ICO'd firms or as professional auditors), so I'm familiar with the economics of choosing clean energy sources. But that neither factors in the net increase in grid demand nor the double-bind of hydro power in places like China. So I don't think we're off the hook, morally speaking.

tim333 8y ago

If you're worried about climate change you can choose one that doesn't have proof of work (of the top 5, EOS and Stellar with maybe Ethereum to follow). Not sure about early adopters - if buying into early Amazon, Apple etc made the buyers rich is that a problem?

dsgriffin 8y ago

Not all cryptos are the same in this regard. DAG-based ones such as Nano use an absolutely tiny amount of electricity compared to Bitcoin: https://cryptodisrupt.com/nano-is-found-to-be-significantly-more-eco-friendly-than-bitcoin/ https://cryptodisrupt.com/nano-is-found-to-be-significantly-...

spookthesunset 8y ago
Hah! Nothing like recommending a "currency" that lost 97% of its value from it's all time high. Yeah. Sounds good. Where do I buy!? https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nano/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nano/
- gskoylvgcfxd 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar#Value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar#Value

fastball 8y ago

If the promise of crypto plays out, it will have a huge positive impact on climate change. What a lot of people forget to realize when they talk about how much energy crypto uses is how much energy the systems that are currently in place are already using, which crypto has the potential to replace. One such example might be property ownership and title companies. Title companies are big business. They have large buildings, they have many employees. The sum total of the resources being used by title companies have a huge carbon footprint. Crypto could eliminate title companies. A blockchain is the perfect solution for storing records of property ownership in a way that is incredibly well-suited for the mostly digital age we find ourselves in, and would be vastly more efficient than the way we currently manage property ownership and transfer. If blockchain tech becomes relevant to the point where we should be concerned about its carbon footprint, that means it's replacing things which currently exist which already have a huge carbon footprint.

rdiddly 8y ago
A worthwhile argument, though it would benefit from having some actual magnitude numbers for comparison.
ac29 8y ago
> Crypto could eliminate title companies. A blockchain is the perfect solution Ah yes, nothing like losing the title to your house because you can't remember the password to decrypt your private key.
- fastball 8y ago
  Why do you think you would need to maintain 100% ownership of your private key? The more relevant aspect of blockchain in this example is the hashed distributed ledger, not the transactional nature of it. In fact, there is no reason you'd need to use PKC type transactions at all.
saati 8y ago
Bitcoin uses as much electricity as a small sized country with industry and everything, all the banks in the world use way less energy.

randaouser 8y ago

Animal farming is the biggest cause climate change; before you try to rid the world of crypto, you can personally go vegan and make a larger impact