6 ms·

It's probably something the author has thought of. As soon as you take payment you enter into a world of pain. Stolen credit cards, suspended Paypal accounts, t

by dpwm 8y ago

It's probably something the author has thought of. As soon as you take payment you enter into a world of pain. Stolen credit cards, suspended Paypal accounts, technical support, requests for different formats. Perhaps the author prefers making books to maximizing the amount of money he makes?

andrepd 8y ago
I think you're overestimating the amount of "hassle" that would bring. There are payment processors that simplify that end, and the difference in profit would be so massive that I think it would be worth it.
- wolfgke 8y ago
  > I think you're overestimating the amount of "hassle" that would bring. There are payment processors that simplify that end, and the difference in profit would be so massive that I think it would be worth it. But do they also accept payment methods that are common on other countries. For example, in Germany credit cards are often frowned upon and many people have no credit card; instead SEPA money transfer and SEPA direct debit (the latter strongly preferred) are the common ways to pay in the internet.
  - freeflight 8y ago
    That used to be an issue, but by now PayPal and CC are so common, you can even use PayPal to pay for gasoline at Shell stations [0]. Overall it's also more of a problem in physical retail, Germans who do a lot of shopping online usually have no issue at all with paying by CC/PayPal, often getting a prepaid CC just for that. But it's not like you are missing out on some massive part of German customer base because paying online with SEPA is usually more hassle than paying online with PayPal, so most people prefer the later. Particularly due to the fact that most "quick" online SEPA payment schemes involve giving a third party access to your banking account [1]. Which shouldn't be an issue, as most actions that involve sending money still require a TAN, but some banks have relaxed these rules, allowing smaller amounts to be transferred without supplying a TAN [2]. It's not difficult to see the potential problems here: If Sofortüberweisung ever has a breach, there's the very real possibility that the data could be used to trigger massive amounts of fraudulent money transfers. [0] https://www.shell.de/autofahrer/smartpay.html https://www.shell.de/autofahrer/smartpay.html [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofort%C3%BCberweisung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofort%C3%BCberweisung [2] https://www.comdirect.de/konto/tan-freiheit.html https://www.comdirect.de/konto/tan-freiheit.html
    - wolfgke 8y ago
      > Overall it's also more of a problem in physical retail, Germans who do a lot of shopping online usually have no issue at all with paying by CC/PayPal, often getting a prepaid CC just for that. I am living in Germany and I stand by my observation that few people have a credit card. PayPal luckily offers SEPA direct debit, even though many consider PayPal for reasons that are off topic here as "workaround". > Particularly due to the fact that most "quick" online SEPA payment schemes involve giving a third party access to your banking account [1]. > It's not difficult to see the potential problems here: If Sofortüberweisung ever has a breach, there's the very real possibility that the data could be used to trigger massive amounts of fraudulent money transfers. Sofortueberweisung is a security nightmare that nobody should use. Just offer SEPA direct debit.
      - freeflight 8y ago
        > I am living in Germany and I stand by my observation that few people have a credit card. That's why I said it's mainly an issue in physical retail due to many retailers not wanting to go through the hassle of getting a CC system in addition to their already established SEPA direct debit system, the fees charged by CC companies is another factor as they are much higher, on a per transaction basis than what's being charged by SEPA direct debit [0]. But we are talking online here, and in that context, many people do have PayPal accounts [1], that happened regardless of the massive controversies which surrounded PayPal a couple of years ago. The ven-diagram here is quite easy: People who like shopping internationally online are more versed in online shopping and thus more likely to have a PayPal account exactly for that reason. People who don't shop online as much, or not at all, do not and people who only shop online at domestic companies, make use of the established SEPA systems. > Sofortueberweisung is a security nightmare that nobody should use. Just offer SEPA direct debit. SEPA direct debit can be its own security nightmare issue because you are essentially giving a third party allowance to just charge your account, for whatever amount. It also does not replace the use-case of Sofortüberweisung because Sofortüberweisung allows "instant fulfillment", which SEPA direct debit usually does not. Because SEPA direct debit requires time for processing, time during which no product/service will be delivered. That's where Sofortüberweisung comes in: It allows payment with instant fulfillment because Sofortüberweisung is like the "man in the middle" who confirms the transaction actually took place, allowing for fulfillment before the payment actually arrives at the seller. Note: I'm not saying Sofortüberweisund or PayPal are amazing services, I'm merely pointing out the difference between Germans shopping online and German physical retail because it's the latter that suffers from a lack of CC support. But plenty of Germans are fine taking other, CC-less routes, like PayPal or Sofortüberweisung, to get their online shopping done. In that context, you won't be missing out on a massive customer base due to your lack of SEPA payment options, Germans who want what you sell will have/find an alternative way to pay for it, without using SEPA. [0] https://www.thepaypers.com/expert-opinion/sepa-directdebit-the-true-alternative-to-credit-cards-in-europe/763758 https://www.thepaypers.com/expert-opinion/sepa-directdebit-t... [1] https://www.bundestag.de/blob/434296/5dbc531d88cd738eccbe2e9b8079f1d1/wd-4-059-16-pdf-data.pdf https://www.bundestag.de/blob/434296/5dbc531d88cd738eccbe2e9...
  - xyzzy_plugh 8y ago
    Yes? https://support.stripe.com/questions/pricing-of-payment-methods-in-the-us https://support.stripe.com/questions/pricing-of-payment-meth...
- tzs 8y ago
  What about sales taxes and VAT? Generally payment processors do not handle that. Selling copies of one book online to customers in multiple jurisdictions subjects one to many of the same rules, regulations, and registration and reporting requirements as an entity selling copies of thousands of different books. For the seller of the single book, dealing with all of this is likely prohibitive unless the book is a massive hit.
  - seanwilson 8y ago
    Use a reseller like Gumroad. They deal with all tax and VAT for you. Transaction fees are 3.5% + 30 cents. Not affiliated with them but I've looked into how to avoid dealing with problems like this previously. Paddle and Fastspring are other options but they're really for software sales I think.
  - josephagoss 8y ago
    The payment processors I have looked into will handle adding on VAT, then you just mass import into an accounting package.
seba_dos1 8y ago
These days you can just upload the file into one of many platforms and let them handle the payments (and even tax and VAT) instead. As it's related to gaming, a PDF on itch.io would have been very easy and cheap solution (you can set any profit sharing percentage there, including 0%, with default of 10%).
fabiensanglard 8y ago
This. Thank you. Also Google Play Books shares is much higher (55%). My take was that it was impossible to make any real money on paper without charging an outrageous amount. I am happy with GPB share and people who really want a paper version do get it for a reasonable amount.
josephagoss 8y ago
For the PDF version, the author is not shipping a physical product so stripe or paypal or even Bitcoin will suffice. I feel too many independents have been tricked into thinking direct sales is too dangerous or too hard. Honestly getting 10x the profit is worth some headache. Good marketing on Amazon's part over the years though, scared many independents away with FUD regarding direct sales for digital downloads.

by dpwm 8y ago

andrepd 8y ago

I think you're overestimating the amount of "hassle" that would bring. There are payment processors that simplify that end, and the difference in profit would be so massive that I think it would be worth it.

wolfgke 8y ago
> I think you're overestimating the amount of "hassle" that would bring. There are payment processors that simplify that end, and the difference in profit would be so massive that I think it would be worth it. But do they also accept payment methods that are common on other countries. For example, in Germany credit cards are often frowned upon and many people have no credit card; instead SEPA money transfer and SEPA direct debit (the latter strongly preferred) are the common ways to pay in the internet.
- freeflight 8y ago
  That used to be an issue, but by now PayPal and CC are so common, you can even use PayPal to pay for gasoline at Shell stations [0]. Overall it's also more of a problem in physical retail, Germans who do a lot of shopping online usually have no issue at all with paying by CC/PayPal, often getting a prepaid CC just for that. But it's not like you are missing out on some massive part of German customer base because paying online with SEPA is usually more hassle than paying online with PayPal, so most people prefer the later. Particularly due to the fact that most "quick" online SEPA payment schemes involve giving a third party access to your banking account [1]. Which shouldn't be an issue, as most actions that involve sending money still require a TAN, but some banks have relaxed these rules, allowing smaller amounts to be transferred without supplying a TAN [2]. It's not difficult to see the potential problems here: If Sofortüberweisung ever has a breach, there's the very real possibility that the data could be used to trigger massive amounts of fraudulent money transfers. [0] https://www.shell.de/autofahrer/smartpay.html https://www.shell.de/autofahrer/smartpay.html [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofort%C3%BCberweisung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofort%C3%BCberweisung [2] https://www.comdirect.de/konto/tan-freiheit.html https://www.comdirect.de/konto/tan-freiheit.html
  - wolfgke 8y ago
    > Overall it's also more of a problem in physical retail, Germans who do a lot of shopping online usually have no issue at all with paying by CC/PayPal, often getting a prepaid CC just for that. I am living in Germany and I stand by my observation that few people have a credit card. PayPal luckily offers SEPA direct debit, even though many consider PayPal for reasons that are off topic here as "workaround". > Particularly due to the fact that most "quick" online SEPA payment schemes involve giving a third party access to your banking account [1]. > It's not difficult to see the potential problems here: If Sofortüberweisung ever has a breach, there's the very real possibility that the data could be used to trigger massive amounts of fraudulent money transfers. Sofortueberweisung is a security nightmare that nobody should use. Just offer SEPA direct debit.
    - freeflight 8y ago
      > I am living in Germany and I stand by my observation that few people have a credit card. That's why I said it's mainly an issue in physical retail due to many retailers not wanting to go through the hassle of getting a CC system in addition to their already established SEPA direct debit system, the fees charged by CC companies is another factor as they are much higher, on a per transaction basis than what's being charged by SEPA direct debit [0]. But we are talking online here, and in that context, many people do have PayPal accounts [1], that happened regardless of the massive controversies which surrounded PayPal a couple of years ago. The ven-diagram here is quite easy: People who like shopping internationally online are more versed in online shopping and thus more likely to have a PayPal account exactly for that reason. People who don't shop online as much, or not at all, do not and people who only shop online at domestic companies, make use of the established SEPA systems. > Sofortueberweisung is a security nightmare that nobody should use. Just offer SEPA direct debit. SEPA direct debit can be its own security nightmare issue because you are essentially giving a third party allowance to just charge your account, for whatever amount. It also does not replace the use-case of Sofortüberweisung because Sofortüberweisung allows "instant fulfillment", which SEPA direct debit usually does not. Because SEPA direct debit requires time for processing, time during which no product/service will be delivered. That's where Sofortüberweisung comes in: It allows payment with instant fulfillment because Sofortüberweisung is like the "man in the middle" who confirms the transaction actually took place, allowing for fulfillment before the payment actually arrives at the seller. Note: I'm not saying Sofortüberweisund or PayPal are amazing services, I'm merely pointing out the difference between Germans shopping online and German physical retail because it's the latter that suffers from a lack of CC support. But plenty of Germans are fine taking other, CC-less routes, like PayPal or Sofortüberweisung, to get their online shopping done. In that context, you won't be missing out on a massive customer base due to your lack of SEPA payment options, Germans who want what you sell will have/find an alternative way to pay for it, without using SEPA. [0] https://www.thepaypers.com/expert-opinion/sepa-directdebit-the-true-alternative-to-credit-cards-in-europe/763758 https://www.thepaypers.com/expert-opinion/sepa-directdebit-t... [1] https://www.bundestag.de/blob/434296/5dbc531d88cd738eccbe2e9b8079f1d1/wd-4-059-16-pdf-data.pdf https://www.bundestag.de/blob/434296/5dbc531d88cd738eccbe2e9...
- xyzzy_plugh 8y ago
  Yes? https://support.stripe.com/questions/pricing-of-payment-methods-in-the-us https://support.stripe.com/questions/pricing-of-payment-meth...
tzs 8y ago
What about sales taxes and VAT? Generally payment processors do not handle that. Selling copies of one book online to customers in multiple jurisdictions subjects one to many of the same rules, regulations, and registration and reporting requirements as an entity selling copies of thousands of different books. For the seller of the single book, dealing with all of this is likely prohibitive unless the book is a massive hit.
- seanwilson 8y ago
  Use a reseller like Gumroad. They deal with all tax and VAT for you. Transaction fees are 3.5% + 30 cents. Not affiliated with them but I've looked into how to avoid dealing with problems like this previously. Paddle and Fastspring are other options but they're really for software sales I think.
- josephagoss 8y ago
  The payment processors I have looked into will handle adding on VAT, then you just mass import into an accounting package.

seba_dos1 8y ago

These days you can just upload the file into one of many platforms and let them handle the payments (and even tax and VAT) instead. As it's related to gaming, a PDF on itch.io would have been very easy and cheap solution (you can set any profit sharing percentage there, including 0%, with default of 10%).

fabiensanglard 8y ago

This. Thank you. Also Google Play Books shares is much higher (55%). My take was that it was impossible to make any real money on paper without charging an outrageous amount. I am happy with GPB share and people who really want a paper version do get it for a reasonable amount.

josephagoss 8y ago

For the PDF version, the author is not shipping a physical product so stripe or paypal or even Bitcoin will suffice. I feel too many independents have been tricked into thinking direct sales is too dangerous or too hard. Honestly getting 10x the profit is worth some headache. Good marketing on Amazon's part over the years though, scared many independents away with FUD regarding direct sales for digital downloads.