5 ms·

wait, how can the distributor take 40% and production 57%? why isn't there a competitor that takes a lower percentage? say 10% for both. are the economics of

by kmlx 8y ago

wait, how can the distributor take 40% and production 57%? why isn't there a competitor that takes a lower percentage? say 10% for both. are the economics of book selling so atrocious for the authors in general? how can one accept .77ct profit on $54 of sale? it's probably just me not being accustomed to the book selling ripoff, but still feels like a monumental, epic-level ripoff.

domlebo70 8y ago
Is there a way I can give Fabien some extra cash for this, outside of the usual flow? I don't think those percentages are fair.
ekianjo 8y ago
> it's probably just me not being accustomed to the book selling ripoff, but still feels like a monumental, epic-level ripoff. It's not just Amazon. I have friends who have published books with traditional publishers as well and the author's margin is razor thin vs the book price.
dpwm 8y ago
I was researching this recently, specifically in the UK. I found a 2013 article from a small indie publisher that didn't want to publish any more books. [0] eBooks are where you can make money, but even then the distributor will make disproportionately more relative to the effort they put in. [0] http://blog.celandor.co.uk/?p=75 http://blog.celandor.co.uk/?p=75
detaro 8y ago
> say 10% for both. Why do you think you could print a 400 page full-color book for $5 and make a profit, especially at lowest volumes/print on demand? That stuff isn't just expensive because printing companies are evil.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  Yeah, ~30¤ seems a very reasonable price for that sort of a printing job.
- WalterBright 8y ago
  I discovered that the economics of having things printed are surprising. It costs about the same to print one copy as it does to print a thousand copies. Nearly all the expense is in the setup, the marginal cost of paper is pretty small. The trick is to correctly guess how many you'll need.
  - ithkuil 8y ago
    Digital print has changed this balance a bit. With offset printing tech there are huge one-time costs
  - tracker1 8y ago
    That's true of most mfg in general. If you ever want say a custom badge for a car, it'll cost you as much for a handful as 5-10,000 of them.
stock_toaster 8y ago
> wait, how can the distributor take 40% and production 57%? No kidding! I thought app stores were rough at 30%!
- dpwm 8y ago
  And Amazon on e-books take 65%, unless you're willing to give them additional controls on the e-book -- in which case they'll take 30%.
  - freeflight 8y ago
    What would those "additional controls" look like? Amazon adding DRM?
    - dpwm 8y ago
      Mainly less freedom on pricing. But even then there are some territories where you're going to get 35% after bandwidth costs are deducted [0]. Strangely, from what I've seen, KDP appears agnostic on DRM and gives you the choice. [0] Yes, really.
mynameishere 8y ago
He's getting rooked in some way I don't understand. If he published with amazon itself you can see the prices: https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201834340 https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201834340 For example, here's how we calculate the minimum list price for a 300-page black ink paperback sold on the US marketplace: $4.45 (printing cost) / 60% (royalty rate) = $7.42 (minimum list price). I don't know about color, but it can't change it that much.
- detaro 8y ago
  According to your link, color is 6 times more expensive per page for Amazon.com.
  - mynameishere 8y ago
    Well, there it is. Even after you said that I had to spend some good time clicking through those weird internal "show hidden text" links to find it. I can't believe color costs so much more--clearly he should have just made it B&W. People buy such things for information more than pictures (I think).
    - peteradio 8y ago
      Depending on what it is, color can be very important.
      - cableshaft 8y ago
        You can do two editions, a color and a black and white edition. I buy a Game and Puzzle Design Journal that offers exactly that, through Lulu: http://gapdjournal.com/issues/ http://gapdjournal.com/issues/. I still pay the extra for the color version because I think it's better, but for those who don't care as much, they can pay less and get it cheaper that way. As a price comparison, their most recent edition is a compilation of six issues at 524 pages. The black and white edition is 30 euros and the color edition is 85 euros, so a 55 euro difference between the two editions, of the same content.

by kmlx 8y ago

domlebo70 8y ago

Is there a way I can give Fabien some extra cash for this, outside of the usual flow? I don't think those percentages are fair.

ekianjo 8y ago

> it's probably just me not being accustomed to the book selling ripoff, but still feels like a monumental, epic-level ripoff. It's not just Amazon. I have friends who have published books with traditional publishers as well and the author's margin is razor thin vs the book price.

dpwm 8y ago

I was researching this recently, specifically in the UK. I found a 2013 article from a small indie publisher that didn't want to publish any more books. [0] eBooks are where you can make money, but even then the distributor will make disproportionately more relative to the effort they put in. [0] http://blog.celandor.co.uk/?p=75 http://blog.celandor.co.uk/?p=75

detaro 8y ago

> say 10% for both. Why do you think you could print a 400 page full-color book for $5 and make a profit, especially at lowest volumes/print on demand? That stuff isn't just expensive because printing companies are evil.

Sharlin 8y ago
Yeah, ~30¤ seems a very reasonable price for that sort of a printing job.
WalterBright 8y ago
I discovered that the economics of having things printed are surprising. It costs about the same to print one copy as it does to print a thousand copies. Nearly all the expense is in the setup, the marginal cost of paper is pretty small. The trick is to correctly guess how many you'll need.
- ithkuil 8y ago
  Digital print has changed this balance a bit. With offset printing tech there are huge one-time costs
- tracker1 8y ago
  That's true of most mfg in general. If you ever want say a custom badge for a car, it'll cost you as much for a handful as 5-10,000 of them.

stock_toaster 8y ago

> wait, how can the distributor take 40% and production 57%? No kidding! I thought app stores were rough at 30%!

dpwm 8y ago
And Amazon on e-books take 65%, unless you're willing to give them additional controls on the e-book -- in which case they'll take 30%.
- freeflight 8y ago
  What would those "additional controls" look like? Amazon adding DRM?
  - dpwm 8y ago
    Mainly less freedom on pricing. But even then there are some territories where you're going to get 35% after bandwidth costs are deducted [0]. Strangely, from what I've seen, KDP appears agnostic on DRM and gives you the choice. [0] Yes, really.

mynameishere 8y ago

He's getting rooked in some way I don't understand. If he published with amazon itself you can see the prices: https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201834340 https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201834340 For example, here's how we calculate the minimum list price for a 300-page black ink paperback sold on the US marketplace: $4.45 (printing cost) / 60% (royalty rate) = $7.42 (minimum list price). I don't know about color, but it can't change it that much.

detaro 8y ago
According to your link, color is 6 times more expensive per page for Amazon.com.
- mynameishere 8y ago
  Well, there it is. Even after you said that I had to spend some good time clicking through those weird internal "show hidden text" links to find it. I can't believe color costs so much more--clearly he should have just made it B&W. People buy such things for information more than pictures (I think).
  - peteradio 8y ago
    Depending on what it is, color can be very important.
    - cableshaft 8y ago
      You can do two editions, a color and a black and white edition. I buy a Game and Puzzle Design Journal that offers exactly that, through Lulu: http://gapdjournal.com/issues/ http://gapdjournal.com/issues/. I still pay the extra for the color version because I think it's better, but for those who don't care as much, they can pay less and get it cheaper that way. As a price comparison, their most recent edition is a compilation of six issues at 524 pages. The black and white edition is 30 euros and the color edition is 85 euros, so a 55 euro difference between the two editions, of the same content.