5 ms·

> those — often Asian, usually male — who find themselves excluded from certain intangible perquisites of American life: love, success, security, and belonging

> those — often Asian, usually male — who find themselves excluded from certain intangible perquisites of American life: love, success, security, and belonging I’m going to need some actual data on that, compared to outcomes of different gender/ethnicity combos.

simtel20 8y ago
This is not a quote from the book being reviewed, this is a quote from the review itself summarizing the book's stories. Fuller context: "Representing a decade of journalism and essential reading for those concerned with identity in America today, Yang’s essays range from profiles of pickup artists to critiques of campus activism, but they tend to center on those — often Asian, usually male — who find themselves excluded from certain intangible perquisites of American life: love, success, security, and belonging." So in context, you are asking for data... which would be asking "what are the subjects of each story in the book". You seem to be confusing the stories in a book of articles and essays with a statistical work about something else, or maybe you meant to ask a different question?
- peteretep 8y ago
  The linked article states a fact, regardless of the fact it’s a review of another piece of work. I would like proof of that fact.
  - simtel20 8y ago
    It seems to me that it's stating facts about the essays, not necessarily making or quoting a broader statistical statement. It's like a reviewer writing that "Hunter Thomson writes about his time in Las Vegas which is largely drink and drug fueled" and you asking for statistical proof that Las Vegas dynamos run on beer and cocaine. The review is talking about the subjects of the specific works being reviewed, not necessarily the world at large. That's why I quoted more context from the review, to make that clearer.
thaumasiotes 8y ago
Here is "love" data for college students. Take particular note of the summary: > First, Asian guys are screwed, obviously. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race... Asians as a group have more economic success and security than whites do. But they're right to complain about love. Economic success doesn't mean much by itself, unless your idea of the good life is to sit in the dark muttering over your big pile of gold.
- magic_beans 8y ago
  I'd love to see another version of this study performed at UCLA. Unlike New York, California has a huge and highly culturally-integrated Asian population.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    Why stop at college students? Interracial marriages between Asians and whites in the US are about 80% Asian female / white male and 20% the other way around. There is no group that preferentially marries Asian men over Asian women, so again Asian guys are screwed.
    - magic_beans 8y ago
      Well, data point of one here: my partner is an Asian man and I'm black ;)
Jun8 8y ago
I addition to the OKCupid study, here is some other data: * 2007 Chicago Booth paper about online dating (https://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/emir.kamenica/documents/racialpreferences.pdf https://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/emir.kamenica/documents/rac...): One important (probably unsurprising) find was that "Females exhibit stronger racial preferences than males." Also from the paper: " Finally, we can reject the hypothesis of equal preference against partners of other races for white, black, and Hispanic subjects, owing largely to the greater preference against Asian males by all other races" * If you prefer anecdata, here are some Asian stories from the frontlines: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/asian-americans-dating-2018_us_5af08456e4b0ab5c3d6827b6 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/asian-americans-dating-.... Asian women are desirable but they find that this cuts both ways, i.e. the desirability comes with unwanted fetishization on the dragon lady (O-Ren Ishii, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Bill:_Volume_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Bill:_Volume_1) - geisha scale (Suzy Wong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Suzie_Wong_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Suzie_Wong_(film)). * If you're interested in the above fetishization of Asian women, here's an interesting paper on how they have been portrayed in Hollywood by analyzing four movies that span 20th century: https://web.uri.edu/iaics/files/07Wang.pdf https://web.uri.edu/iaics/files/07Wang.pdf
- peteretep 8y ago
  And yet, marriage rates are by far the highest in Asian Americans compared to other ethnicities: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_10_3YR_S1201&prodType=table https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/... The OkCupid data shows that everyone prefers people of their own race, and Asian women are no different. > If you prefer anecdata I mean, specifically not. I am open-minded to the idea that Asian-American men are being excluded in ways outside of affirmative-action, but not willing to accept "feel discriminated against" as having any weight in an era where there's a US President largely elected by white men who feel discriminated against. Every reply to my original question ignores every category except dating, and if you use marriage as a (I think pretty reasonable) proxy, it's hard to make a case that Asian men are suffering there.
iso1337 8y ago
Okcupid did some analyses on this. The big losers in the US sexual market are black females, black males, and asian males. https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060 https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-10...
- mc32 8y ago
  While the stats are accurate, the self selection may not represent the pop at large.
  - iso1337 8y ago
    Here’s another: Black females and asian males are less likely to be in interracial marriages [1]. Under the heading “For blacks and Asians, big gender gaps in intermarriage” Of course this only paints part of the picture, since it sliced and diced the data differently. Ideally you’d have much more comprehensive statistics about people in relationships, and the statistics wouldn’t just be % of intermarriage, but all marriages. However you should be able to extrapolate, since all marriages = interracial + interracial marriages. So if asian females have higher rates of intermarriage and males don’t, then there presumably are a surplus of unmarried asian males (and black females for that matter). http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patte...
    - mc32 8y ago
      I wonder if there is a difference between American born Asians and transplants. In other words, is there a cultural component to the preferences (i.e. foreign cultural component, rather than just local cultural components). For black women obviously, this applies much less and other things might be going on.
      - peteretep 8y ago
        Anecdata: white female expats struggle with dating in Asia.

simtel20 8y ago

This is not a quote from the book being reviewed, this is a quote from the review itself summarizing the book's stories. Fuller context: "Representing a decade of journalism and essential reading for those concerned with identity in America today, Yang’s essays range from profiles of pickup artists to critiques of campus activism, but they tend to center on those — often Asian, usually male — who find themselves excluded from certain intangible perquisites of American life: love, success, security, and belonging." So in context, you are asking for data... which would be asking "what are the subjects of each story in the book". You seem to be confusing the stories in a book of articles and essays with a statistical work about something else, or maybe you meant to ask a different question?

peteretep 8y ago
The linked article states a fact, regardless of the fact it’s a review of another piece of work. I would like proof of that fact.
- simtel20 8y ago
  It seems to me that it's stating facts about the essays, not necessarily making or quoting a broader statistical statement. It's like a reviewer writing that "Hunter Thomson writes about his time in Las Vegas which is largely drink and drug fueled" and you asking for statistical proof that Las Vegas dynamos run on beer and cocaine. The review is talking about the subjects of the specific works being reviewed, not necessarily the world at large. That's why I quoted more context from the review, to make that clearer.

thaumasiotes 8y ago

Here is "love" data for college students. Take particular note of the summary: > First, Asian guys are screwed, obviously. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race... Asians as a group have more economic success and security than whites do. But they're right to complain about love. Economic success doesn't mean much by itself, unless your idea of the good life is to sit in the dark muttering over your big pile of gold.

magic_beans 8y ago
I'd love to see another version of this study performed at UCLA. Unlike New York, California has a huge and highly culturally-integrated Asian population.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  Why stop at college students? Interracial marriages between Asians and whites in the US are about 80% Asian female / white male and 20% the other way around. There is no group that preferentially marries Asian men over Asian women, so again Asian guys are screwed.
  - magic_beans 8y ago
    Well, data point of one here: my partner is an Asian man and I'm black ;)

Jun8 8y ago

I addition to the OKCupid study, here is some other data: * 2007 Chicago Booth paper about online dating (https://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/emir.kamenica/documents/racialpreferences.pdf https://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/emir.kamenica/documents/rac...): One important (probably unsurprising) find was that "Females exhibit stronger racial preferences than males." Also from the paper: " Finally, we can reject the hypothesis of equal preference against partners of other races for white, black, and Hispanic subjects, owing largely to the greater preference against Asian males by all other races" * If you prefer anecdata, here are some Asian stories from the frontlines: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/asian-americans-dating-2018_us_5af08456e4b0ab5c3d6827b6 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/asian-americans-dating-.... Asian women are desirable but they find that this cuts both ways, i.e. the desirability comes with unwanted fetishization on the dragon lady (O-Ren Ishii, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Bill:_Volume_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Bill:_Volume_1) - geisha scale (Suzy Wong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Suzie_Wong_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Suzie_Wong_(film)). * If you're interested in the above fetishization of Asian women, here's an interesting paper on how they have been portrayed in Hollywood by analyzing four movies that span 20th century: https://web.uri.edu/iaics/files/07Wang.pdf https://web.uri.edu/iaics/files/07Wang.pdf

peteretep 8y ago
And yet, marriage rates are by far the highest in Asian Americans compared to other ethnicities: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_10_3YR_S1201&prodType=table https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/... The OkCupid data shows that everyone prefers people of their own race, and Asian women are no different. > If you prefer anecdata I mean, specifically not. I am open-minded to the idea that Asian-American men are being excluded in ways outside of affirmative-action, but not willing to accept "feel discriminated against" as having any weight in an era where there's a US President largely elected by white men who feel discriminated against. Every reply to my original question ignores every category except dating, and if you use marriage as a (I think pretty reasonable) proxy, it's hard to make a case that Asian men are suffering there.

iso1337 8y ago

Okcupid did some analyses on this. The big losers in the US sexual market are black females, black males, and asian males. https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060 https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-10...

mc32 8y ago
While the stats are accurate, the self selection may not represent the pop at large.
- iso1337 8y ago
  Here’s another: Black females and asian males are less likely to be in interracial marriages [1]. Under the heading “For blacks and Asians, big gender gaps in intermarriage” Of course this only paints part of the picture, since it sliced and diced the data differently. Ideally you’d have much more comprehensive statistics about people in relationships, and the statistics wouldn’t just be % of intermarriage, but all marriages. However you should be able to extrapolate, since all marriages = interracial + interracial marriages. So if asian females have higher rates of intermarriage and males don’t, then there presumably are a surplus of unmarried asian males (and black females for that matter). http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patte...
  - mc32 8y ago
    I wonder if there is a difference between American born Asians and transplants. In other words, is there a cultural component to the preferences (i.e. foreign cultural component, rather than just local cultural components). For black women obviously, this applies much less and other things might be going on.
    - peteretep 8y ago
      Anecdata: white female expats struggle with dating in Asia.