4 ms·

Ever since Asians started succeeding academically, America has sought to prove that grades aren't a legitimate means of evaluating students. Sure, they're not

Ever since Asians started succeeding academically, America has sought to prove that grades aren't a legitimate means of evaluating students. Sure, they're not perfect, but everything else is fraught with bias.

greatzebu 8y ago
Grades are also fraught with bias, and in a lot of cases measure compliance more than mastery of the material.
- jhwang5 8y ago
  What are some examples of this bias?
- sys_64738 8y ago
  This. I thought everybody for sure in the USA got A grades for everything. If you were not then you get extra credit to let you get the A Grade. In England, A Levels have gotten to the point where each year more people get an A for a subject than the previous year. This is analogous to the Soviet harvests beating each preceding years. Not they have A* grades or some such derivative to say that it's a "real" A grade.
  - johnday 8y ago
    It's actually been fairly stable for almost a decade - there's a good graph for the UK on the 'grade inflation' Wikipedia article.
  - yhoneycomb 8y ago
    > everybody for sure in the USA got A grades for everything. If you were not then you get extra credit to let you get the A Grade. that's incredibly inaccurate and naive
chongli 8y ago
Grades, and the exams written to obtain them, can be gamed. This is entirely unlike what employers of high skilled workers want. Creativity and teamwork can't be gamed. But they can't really be tested either.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  > Grades, and the exams written to obtain them, can be gamed. Grades are generally not achieved (in the US) by taking exams. The whole point of grades is to produce a different set of results than standardized tests do; your grade is a composite of exam scores, homework completion, the amount you talk in class, and the amount you press the teacher for a better grade, all weighted at the teacher's discretion. The weighting applied to you may be different than that applied to your classmates. It is very much not the norm for low test scores to translate into a low grade as long as the student asks for more credit and is willing to complete makework assignments.
  - chongli 8y ago
    That sounds like elementary and high school, not university. Are university courses in the US structured like that? I'm a student at University of Waterloo in Canada and I've frequently seen (and taken) courses where exams (midterm and final) make up 90% or more of your grade.
    - thaumasiotes 8y ago
      The model applies to university classes too. There is variation by school (just like with elementary and high schools) and by subject area (unlike elementary and high schools), but the typical case is as I described. Once I received an exam back, saw that a question had been marked wrong, and went to ask the professor about it. He explained to me how I was wrong, and then changed my score as if I had been correct, even though I wasn't.
      - khitan 8y ago
        The typical case definitely was not as you described in my major (chemistry). I had a couple homework heavy classes but most had either a fairly large homework burden that nonetheless comprised only a small (10-20) percent of the grade or no mandatory homework at all, merely recommended problems with 100% of the grade dictated by 2-4 exams.
waterhouse 8y ago
At least in terms of college admissions, they started doing that with Jewish applicants many decades ago.

greatzebu 8y ago

Grades are also fraught with bias, and in a lot of cases measure compliance more than mastery of the material.

jhwang5 8y ago
What are some examples of this bias?
sys_64738 8y ago
This. I thought everybody for sure in the USA got A grades for everything. If you were not then you get extra credit to let you get the A Grade. In England, A Levels have gotten to the point where each year more people get an A for a subject than the previous year. This is analogous to the Soviet harvests beating each preceding years. Not they have A* grades or some such derivative to say that it's a "real" A grade.
- johnday 8y ago
  It's actually been fairly stable for almost a decade - there's a good graph for the UK on the 'grade inflation' Wikipedia article.
- yhoneycomb 8y ago
  > everybody for sure in the USA got A grades for everything. If you were not then you get extra credit to let you get the A Grade. that's incredibly inaccurate and naive

chongli 8y ago

Grades, and the exams written to obtain them, can be gamed. This is entirely unlike what employers of high skilled workers want. Creativity and teamwork can't be gamed. But they can't really be tested either.

thaumasiotes 8y ago
> Grades, and the exams written to obtain them, can be gamed. Grades are generally not achieved (in the US) by taking exams. The whole point of grades is to produce a different set of results than standardized tests do; your grade is a composite of exam scores, homework completion, the amount you talk in class, and the amount you press the teacher for a better grade, all weighted at the teacher's discretion. The weighting applied to you may be different than that applied to your classmates. It is very much not the norm for low test scores to translate into a low grade as long as the student asks for more credit and is willing to complete makework assignments.
- chongli 8y ago
  That sounds like elementary and high school, not university. Are university courses in the US structured like that? I'm a student at University of Waterloo in Canada and I've frequently seen (and taken) courses where exams (midterm and final) make up 90% or more of your grade.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    The model applies to university classes too. There is variation by school (just like with elementary and high schools) and by subject area (unlike elementary and high schools), but the typical case is as I described. Once I received an exam back, saw that a question had been marked wrong, and went to ask the professor about it. He explained to me how I was wrong, and then changed my score as if I had been correct, even though I wasn't.
    - khitan 8y ago
      The typical case definitely was not as you described in my major (chemistry). I had a couple homework heavy classes but most had either a fairly large homework burden that nonetheless comprised only a small (10-20) percent of the grade or no mandatory homework at all, merely recommended problems with 100% of the grade dictated by 2-4 exams.

waterhouse 8y ago

At least in terms of college admissions, they started doing that with Jewish applicants many decades ago.