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This is very interesting, and Curtis has a lot of great insights, but it seems like moves from accurate insight to hyperbolic and emotional conclusion many time
by everdrive 8y ago
This is very interesting, and Curtis has a lot of great insights, but it seems like moves from accurate insight to hyperbolic and emotional conclusion many times during the interview.
For example:
"No one is really sure what Trump represents. My working theory is that he’s part of the pantomime-isation of politics. Every morning Donald Trump wakes up in the White House, he tweets something absolutely outrageous which he knows the liberals will get upset by, the liberals read his tweets and go “This is terrible, this is outrageous,” and then tell each other via social media how terrible it all is. It becomes a feedback loop in which they are locked together. In my mind, it’s like they’re together in a theatre watching a pantomime villain. The pantomime villain comes forward into the light, looks at them and says something terrible, and they go “Boo!!”. Meanwhile, outside the theatre, real power is carrying on but no one is really analysing it."
I think this is a great insight, and it's true: but is "no one" paying attention to any other news? Surely many organizations are provably doing so every day. Why don't they count as "someone?" Presumably because they don't fit Curtis' definition of the cultural mainstream. But, Curtis (at least in the interview) never defines the cultural mainstream. What is inside it, what is outside it, and why? Would two individuals define the cultural mainstream the same way? What if my cultural mainstream does include people who are "analyzing the real power?" It seems that the conclusion based on his insight is meant to be emotionally powerful and impactful, except that anyone should be able to think of counterexamples.
He makes this mistake the whole article. Here's another extraordinarily brilliant insight: (I'm not being sarcastic here, I think this is genius and he's really onto something)
"I think the old mass democracies sort of died in the early 90s and have been replaced by a system that manages us as individuals. Because the fundamental problem is that politicians can’t manage individuals, they need us to join parties and support them and let them represent us as a group identified with them. What modern management systems worked out, especially when computer networks came into being, was that you could actually manage people as groups by using data to understand how they were behaving in the mass, but you could create a system that allowed them to keep on thinking that they were individuals."
He expands on this idea, adding more insight and precision until finally stumbles into this:
"They’re constantly playing back to you the ghosts of your own behaviour. We live in a modern ghost story. We are haunted by our past behaviour played back to us through the machines in its comparison to millions of other people’s behaviour. We are guided and nudged and shaped by that. It’s benign in a way and it’s an alternative to the old kind of politics. But it locks us into a static world because it’s always looking to the past. It can never imagine something new."
I can't possibly see how this can be true. Creativity is dead? We can't imagine new things because facebook (or the internet, or modern media) exists? I'm being a bit dismissive here, but I don't see how he can support this claim. People are coming up with new ideas all the time.
Again, his insight about how the internet and algorithms allow systems to cater to and control individuals was genius. But, the conclusion he draws from that insight is deeply emotional, catastrophic, and not very well constructed. It sounds like the sort of emotional mistake someone might make in therapy: "I'll never find another girlfriend again," or "I'll always be socially unpopular," etc.
- abledon 8y agoYeah hes a good public speaker and story weaver. Its 'exciting' to listen to his words, even though the subject matter may be bleak. He has a flare for the dramatic and that sells.
- Krasnol 8y ago> Surely many organizations are provably doing so every day. Why don't they count as "someone?" Presumably because they don't fit Curtis' definition of the cultural mainstream. But, Curtis (at least in the interview) never defines the cultural mainstream. What is inside it, what is outside it, and why? As I understood it, the mainstream is the relevant/influential part of the society. Surely somebody is paying attention to most of the things as they are easy accessible these days but to what outcome? > I can't possibly see how this can be true. Creativity is dead? We can't imagine new things because facebook (or the internet, or modern media) exists? I'm being a bit dismissive here, but I don't see how he can support this claim. People are coming up with new ideas all the time. Are they really? I mean on one hand he's talking about visionary developments of systems (political, economical, etc.) but I don't see anything substantial there. We had a really great opportunity for it when the whole post-crisis occupy thing was going on but it seems like it used all the energy on self organizing or discussions about how discussions should run (seen it happen actually in the Frankfurt camp in Germany). Right now we're back at "holding it together when mad man are breaking it with stupidity" (which they probably do). Meanwhile the deep left groups where you'd expect is still re-dreaming dead concepts that did not work out in the past already. This is where they meet the alt right, where nothing is really "alt" about them. Now you're talking about Social Media, what is the new thing there? Todays meme? Which is also based upon some past joke. Then we have the world of products. What is there actually new? The newest robot doing the stuff we did before? The new version of the old machine we had but now with a screen and the ability to talk? The new phone that has a notch now? Or is it maybe the new food, which is actually the old food grown the old way because back then everything was better. This is the world of the general public. My world. Maybe your world too and I don't see it. When I went to Japan, I was confronted with a product palette that was immense. The famous Kit-Kat portfolio for example. The electronic toys, etc. I went in the mall there an it got a sudden backflash of me going into an ALDI when I came to Germany from Poland at the end of the 80s and suddenly I wonder: is this maybe just a shift. Is there really new stuff out there if you are Japanese in Japan? My personal hope for an idea we can all start dreaming of and working upon is space. I really hope that people like Musk and nations investing into this widely open area of ideas may give us some perspective.