23 ms·

A tool for readers and writers should not be a lever for copyright enforcement. I really think Nelson's insistence in being a publisher is what killed the tool

A tool for readers and writers should not be a lever for copyright enforcement. I really think Nelson's insistence in being a publisher is what killed the tool he was trying to build.

em-bee 8y ago
the issue is not to support copyright enforcement but to prevent it from interfering with a necessary operation. the issue is this: you build a system that connects pieces of text in a certain way, and then someone steps in and tells you: hey that connection over there, you have to pay for. but since not everyone will be willing or able to pay, your system is now broken. therefore it needs to be made explicit that linking is not a publishing action that could trigger copyright enforcement.
- mimixco 8y ago
  None of that belongs in a tool for readers and writers and it won't be part of Mimix.
  - Fnoord 8y ago
    What is Mimix in a nutshell? I found [1], but there is hardly a summary in this PDF. [1] https://mimix.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/On-Mimix-v1.3.pdf https://mimix.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/On-Mim...
    - mimixco 8y ago
      Thanks for asking. A better summary is definitely needed. I short, Mimix is a tool for reading, writing, learning, and teaching which makes it easier to include and share factual information in you're writing.
      - no_identd 8y ago
        You REALLY ought to learn about transcopyright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3l7CpnpyGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3l7CpnpyGw
        mimixco 8y ago
        No, because that's not part of what we're building. It was Ted's dream to control a copyright and publishing empire. It is my dream to enable and empower individual creators and consumers of textual information. Mimix will not engage in copyright issues for the same reason that VS Code does not involve itself in the licensing aspects of the code you write. It's simply the wrong tool for the job. Our tool is focused on helping writers and readers to Think Better. It has no functions related to intellectual property enforcement.
        no_identd 8y ago
        I'll try to make my point via a completely different avenue: Would you use Mimix to utilize transclusion to edit the code of Mimix & to distribute it?
        em-bee 8y ago
        i think what they are talking about is to provide technical means for the xanadu features, while leaving the legal questions to others. so i suppose that mimix will support transclusion, but it's up to the user to figure out whether transcluding a certain document is a copyright violation or not. interestingly, iframes in html are an example of transclusion, so this is not exactly a new feature, and there are discussions on copyright about it: https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2009/04/07/is-the-diggbar-content-theft/ https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2009/04/07/is-the-diggbar-co... https://policyreview.info/articles/news/eu-ruling-embedding-does-not-equal-copyright-infringement/337 https://policyreview.info/articles/news/eu-ruling-embedding-... (funny how that seemingly contradicts the link-tax which started this branch of the discussion. i can transclude but i have to pay for a link?)

A tool for readers and writers should not be a lever for copyright enforcement. I really think Nelson's insistence in being a publisher is what killed the tool he was trying to build.

em-bee 8y ago

the issue is not to support copyright enforcement but to prevent it from interfering with a necessary operation. the issue is this: you build a system that connects pieces of text in a certain way, and then someone steps in and tells you: hey that connection over there, you have to pay for. but since not everyone will be willing or able to pay, your system is now broken. therefore it needs to be made explicit that linking is not a publishing action that could trigger copyright enforcement.

mimixco 8y ago
None of that belongs in a tool for readers and writers and it won't be part of Mimix.
- Fnoord 8y ago
  What is Mimix in a nutshell? I found [1], but there is hardly a summary in this PDF. [1] https://mimix.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/On-Mimix-v1.3.pdf https://mimix.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/On-Mim...
  - mimixco 8y ago
    Thanks for asking. A better summary is definitely needed. I short, Mimix is a tool for reading, writing, learning, and teaching which makes it easier to include and share factual information in you're writing.
    - no_identd 8y ago
      You REALLY ought to learn about transcopyright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3l7CpnpyGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3l7CpnpyGw
      - mimixco 8y ago
        No, because that's not part of what we're building. It was Ted's dream to control a copyright and publishing empire. It is my dream to enable and empower individual creators and consumers of textual information. Mimix will not engage in copyright issues for the same reason that VS Code does not involve itself in the licensing aspects of the code you write. It's simply the wrong tool for the job. Our tool is focused on helping writers and readers to Think Better. It has no functions related to intellectual property enforcement.
        no_identd 8y ago
        I'll try to make my point via a completely different avenue: Would you use Mimix to utilize transclusion to edit the code of Mimix & to distribute it?
        em-bee 8y ago
        i think what they are talking about is to provide technical means for the xanadu features, while leaving the legal questions to others. so i suppose that mimix will support transclusion, but it's up to the user to figure out whether transcluding a certain document is a copyright violation or not. interestingly, iframes in html are an example of transclusion, so this is not exactly a new feature, and there are discussions on copyright about it: https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2009/04/07/is-the-diggbar-content-theft/ https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2009/04/07/is-the-diggbar-co... https://policyreview.info/articles/news/eu-ruling-embedding-does-not-equal-copyright-infringement/337 https://policyreview.info/articles/news/eu-ruling-embedding-... (funny how that seemingly contradicts the link-tax which started this branch of the discussion. i can transclude but i have to pay for a link?)