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I really hope Purism's Librem5 pans out for this very reason. A third alternative. I don't want Windows Phone, since that would not buy me much more privacy tha

I really hope Purism's Librem5 pans out for this very reason. A third alternative. I don't want Windows Phone, since that would not buy me much more privacy than Android with today's Microsoft, so having an open 3rd party mobile platform would be the solution here, I think.

gardaani 8y ago
There's SailfishOS, which is an alternative to Android and iPhone. It's a mobile Linux OS with an optional support for Android apps. It's not the world's most advanced mobile OS, but a good way to escape the Apple and Google ecosystems. It is possible to purchase the OS and install it to Sony Xperia phones. https://shop.jolla.com https://shop.jolla.com
- Operyl 8y ago
  I guess it’s not even available for viewing in my country (the United States). Coincidentally, this must be close to what it’s like in the UK (just on a much much smaller scale) after the GDPR stuff.
redwards510 8y ago
I agree it is an exciting phone, but what are the privacy gains versus an android phone with lineageOS and f-droid foss apps? AFAIK it's just the baseband code. Convincing regular users that opensourcing the baseband will solve any problems seems pretty DOA when you have the very visible google play services tracking issue and no on cares.
- arendtio 8y ago
  It is not just about privacy. With Android phones, you will sooner or later end up in a position where you can't install newer LinageOS versions, simply because your kernel is too old and the required binary drivers cannot be ported to newer kernel versions. Maybe project Treble helps to solve that problem, but it will still take a few years until we will find out (unless Fuchsia kills Android). Nevertheless, I hope that Purism will be able to deliver a product which is as easy to use as a "normal" Android device with those privacy/sustainability features as a bonus. That way I might be able to give the people who ask me which phone they should buy next some good advice.
- AsyncAwait 8y ago
  > what are the privacy gains versus an android phone with lineageOS and f-droid foss apps? Google oozes from every part of Android. I very much doubt that installing LineageOS with closed-source blobs for most of the hardware makes Google/NSA/OEMs completely unaware of your activity. Moreover, Android is such a critical piece of software that probably every significant 3 letter agency in the world has some sort of a backdoor in/to it. Android suffers a security fiasco quite often and the update situation is quite awful. Lineage is also often not as stable as one'd like and the update process from one major version to another can be itself nerve-wrecking. On the technical side, it is running ancient, out-of-tree kernels that lack a lot of the security work going upstream, which is especially concerning considering there's a new Spectre variant patch in practically every release. Lastly, having the full GNU/Linux experience in my pocket is something I've always wanted. Whether 'regular users' care about this is not particularly concerning to me, as I think the 'enthusiast crowd' is large enough to get the ecosystem started and once we feel comfortable recommending this to our 'regular' family members and friends, they need not to be aware of any of the additional benefits - it would be just the new smartphone that they have.
mprev 8y ago
I hate to be so blunt but it won’t pan out in any meaningful way. Why would it succeed where FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Mobile could not? Not enough people value openness to make the trade off versus iOS and Android. Does iOS not provide the privacy you need?
- AsyncAwait 8y ago
  > Why would it succeed where FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Mobile could not? I think Purism would be satisfied with much less initial adoption on the overall market than somebody like Mozilla/Canonical. In short, they'd probably consider it a success much sooner. Also, both FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Touch were essentially adopting the same philosophy as Android in terms of having a closed-hardware approach and a software stack that while open in principle, was largely restricted on-device to run just the apps available in the respective app-stores, made for the platform specifically, which weren't that many. Purism is making it so that practically any Linux app can be installed out of the box and with a small amount of work, any GTK3/4 app can be made touch friendly as well. I think this could provide them the app ecosystem head start they'd need. > Not enough people value openness to make the trade off versus iOS and Android. I think you're, sadly, right. However if PurismOS becomes a solid choice in its own right and then you have the privacy advantage on top, it might sell. > Does iOS not provide the privacy you need? Kind of, that's what I use now, however I have to trust Apple on keeping its word, which may be difficult considering they're moving more and more into "services" == rent seeking. Also, I have serious problems with the war on general purpose computing Apple is involved in and the closed nature of their software, where they have the ultimate say in what I can run on a piece of hardware I paid thousand pounds for to own, not rent.

gardaani 8y ago

There's SailfishOS, which is an alternative to Android and iPhone. It's a mobile Linux OS with an optional support for Android apps. It's not the world's most advanced mobile OS, but a good way to escape the Apple and Google ecosystems. It is possible to purchase the OS and install it to Sony Xperia phones. https://shop.jolla.com https://shop.jolla.com

Operyl 8y ago
I guess it’s not even available for viewing in my country (the United States). Coincidentally, this must be close to what it’s like in the UK (just on a much much smaller scale) after the GDPR stuff.

redwards510 8y ago

I agree it is an exciting phone, but what are the privacy gains versus an android phone with lineageOS and f-droid foss apps? AFAIK it's just the baseband code. Convincing regular users that opensourcing the baseband will solve any problems seems pretty DOA when you have the very visible google play services tracking issue and no on cares.

arendtio 8y ago
It is not just about privacy. With Android phones, you will sooner or later end up in a position where you can't install newer LinageOS versions, simply because your kernel is too old and the required binary drivers cannot be ported to newer kernel versions. Maybe project Treble helps to solve that problem, but it will still take a few years until we will find out (unless Fuchsia kills Android). Nevertheless, I hope that Purism will be able to deliver a product which is as easy to use as a "normal" Android device with those privacy/sustainability features as a bonus. That way I might be able to give the people who ask me which phone they should buy next some good advice.
AsyncAwait 8y ago
> what are the privacy gains versus an android phone with lineageOS and f-droid foss apps? Google oozes from every part of Android. I very much doubt that installing LineageOS with closed-source blobs for most of the hardware makes Google/NSA/OEMs completely unaware of your activity. Moreover, Android is such a critical piece of software that probably every significant 3 letter agency in the world has some sort of a backdoor in/to it. Android suffers a security fiasco quite often and the update situation is quite awful. Lineage is also often not as stable as one'd like and the update process from one major version to another can be itself nerve-wrecking. On the technical side, it is running ancient, out-of-tree kernels that lack a lot of the security work going upstream, which is especially concerning considering there's a new Spectre variant patch in practically every release. Lastly, having the full GNU/Linux experience in my pocket is something I've always wanted. Whether 'regular users' care about this is not particularly concerning to me, as I think the 'enthusiast crowd' is large enough to get the ecosystem started and once we feel comfortable recommending this to our 'regular' family members and friends, they need not to be aware of any of the additional benefits - it would be just the new smartphone that they have.

mprev 8y ago

I hate to be so blunt but it won’t pan out in any meaningful way. Why would it succeed where FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Mobile could not? Not enough people value openness to make the trade off versus iOS and Android. Does iOS not provide the privacy you need?

AsyncAwait 8y ago
> Why would it succeed where FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Mobile could not? I think Purism would be satisfied with much less initial adoption on the overall market than somebody like Mozilla/Canonical. In short, they'd probably consider it a success much sooner. Also, both FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Touch were essentially adopting the same philosophy as Android in terms of having a closed-hardware approach and a software stack that while open in principle, was largely restricted on-device to run just the apps available in the respective app-stores, made for the platform specifically, which weren't that many. Purism is making it so that practically any Linux app can be installed out of the box and with a small amount of work, any GTK3/4 app can be made touch friendly as well. I think this could provide them the app ecosystem head start they'd need. > Not enough people value openness to make the trade off versus iOS and Android. I think you're, sadly, right. However if PurismOS becomes a solid choice in its own right and then you have the privacy advantage on top, it might sell. > Does iOS not provide the privacy you need? Kind of, that's what I use now, however I have to trust Apple on keeping its word, which may be difficult considering they're moving more and more into "services" == rent seeking. Also, I have serious problems with the war on general purpose computing Apple is involved in and the closed nature of their software, where they have the ultimate say in what I can run on a piece of hardware I paid thousand pounds for to own, not rent.