3 ms·

> The opposite of stability is a politics of imagination. There is a yearning that there must be something more than the repetition we hear every day that “if y

> The opposite of stability is a politics of imagination. There is a yearning that there must be something more than the repetition we hear every day that “if you like this you’ll like that”. I think it’s coming but I take your point, you are right, there is fear of that. But the job of a good politician is to say, “Yes, I understand your fears but look, it’s not right and we can do better than this”. I’m waiting for a politician on the left to come along and say that. So far, I haven't seen one. I'm very curious why he thinks Bernie Sanders doesn't qualify. Regardless of what you think of his political views, the political story he was selling fits this description to a T. I suspect it's not that these politicians don't exist, it's that the rest of the political establishment also is afraid of them and cooperates to keep them out. Kind of like how managers never fire themselves.

oyji 8y ago
Yanis Varoufakis - Either we end up with a Star Trek-like utopia where we harness technology and use its wealth-producing capacity for the common good, or we get The Matrix, a dystopia in which the miserable masses have their energy sucked out of them by unseen forces and are fed illusions to keep them quiet. Eventually even the elites will become servants to the machine
- anentropic 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
TheCowboy 8y ago
The constant railing against this vague concept of "the establishment" doesn't really help progress the discussion to limit the influence of the establishment either. It's essentially a strawman. I can't argue about the establishment because it means something different to everyone and varies depending on the circumstances. I'd find it ridiculous to argue that Bernie's influence doesn't represent one part of the political establishment these days. Bernie has been a member of congress for how long now? He also ran a relatively successful campaign for the Democratic nomination and gained a lot more influence as a result.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  > I'd find it ridiculous to argue that Bernie's influence doesn't represent one part of the political establishment these days Emphasis "one part", and definitely not the national part of the democratic party with the top-down power to force things through. You have to think about, for the lack of a better term, the meta-politics here. And the irony is that the rest of the Democrats themselves did not see how they only disenfranchised a large chunk of their own voter base by rejecting what he had to say.
  - TheCowboy 8y ago
    That's the thing about having such a large party though, it isn't just Establishment plus Bernie parts. There are a lot of overlapping parts consisting of many people who have legitimate interests and are willing to help.
rjsw 8y ago
Seen from Europe, Bernie Sanders is just a mainstream centre-left politician, he wasn't proposing anything particularly controversial.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  Of course, but that is not the point. The point is that from the American point view his proposals were still something that they as a society could aim for, not something they already have.
- mikhailfranco 8y ago
  Europe is already more socialized than any 'communist' could dream of. Try sorting this table and see which continent floats to the top: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...
igravious 8y ago
He means that he's looking for a politician who is a partisan of the left but who does not play partisan politics. So, as you say, someone like Bernie Sanders who is a social democrat (and therefore who by definition is someone a large swathe of the population loathes instinctively) but who is able to communicate to both the left and the right saying, “Yes, I understand your fears but look, it’s not right and we can do better than this” I think it's a very tough ask. Inequality is breeding division and extremism, I don't see how one magic or special person can appeal to both sides of the aisle. In a way, nearly all politicians are like Macron fiddling while Paris burns.

oyji 8y ago

Yanis Varoufakis - Either we end up with a Star Trek-like utopia where we harness technology and use its wealth-producing capacity for the common good, or we get The Matrix, a dystopia in which the miserable masses have their energy sucked out of them by unseen forces and are fed illusions to keep them quiet. Eventually even the elites will become servants to the machine

anentropic 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

TheCowboy 8y ago

The constant railing against this vague concept of "the establishment" doesn't really help progress the discussion to limit the influence of the establishment either. It's essentially a strawman. I can't argue about the establishment because it means something different to everyone and varies depending on the circumstances. I'd find it ridiculous to argue that Bernie's influence doesn't represent one part of the political establishment these days. Bernie has been a member of congress for how long now? He also ran a relatively successful campaign for the Democratic nomination and gained a lot more influence as a result.

vanderZwan 8y ago
> I'd find it ridiculous to argue that Bernie's influence doesn't represent one part of the political establishment these days Emphasis "one part", and definitely not the national part of the democratic party with the top-down power to force things through. You have to think about, for the lack of a better term, the meta-politics here. And the irony is that the rest of the Democrats themselves did not see how they only disenfranchised a large chunk of their own voter base by rejecting what he had to say.
- TheCowboy 8y ago
  That's the thing about having such a large party though, it isn't just Establishment plus Bernie parts. There are a lot of overlapping parts consisting of many people who have legitimate interests and are willing to help.

rjsw 8y ago

Seen from Europe, Bernie Sanders is just a mainstream centre-left politician, he wasn't proposing anything particularly controversial.

vanderZwan 8y ago
Of course, but that is not the point. The point is that from the American point view his proposals were still something that they as a society could aim for, not something they already have.
mikhailfranco 8y ago
Europe is already more socialized than any 'communist' could dream of. Try sorting this table and see which continent floats to the top: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...

igravious 8y ago

He means that he's looking for a politician who is a partisan of the left but who does not play partisan politics. So, as you say, someone like Bernie Sanders who is a social democrat (and therefore who by definition is someone a large swathe of the population loathes instinctively) but who is able to communicate to both the left and the right saying, “Yes, I understand your fears but look, it’s not right and we can do better than this” I think it's a very tough ask. Inequality is breeding division and extremism, I don't see how one magic or special person can appeal to both sides of the aisle. In a way, nearly all politicians are like Macron fiddling while Paris burns.