7 ms·

This is very insightful: "Every morning Donald Trump wakes up in the White House, he tweets something absolutely outrageous which he knows the liberals will get

by gedy 8y ago

This is very insightful: "Every morning Donald Trump wakes up in the White House, he tweets something absolutely outrageous which he knows the liberals will get upset by, the liberals read his tweets and go “This is terrible, this is outrageous,” and then tell each other via social media how terrible it all is. It becomes a feedback loop in which they are locked together. In my mind, it’s like they’re together in a theatre watching a pantomime villain. The pantomime villain comes forward into the light, looks at them and says something terrible, and they go “Boo!!”. Meanwhile, outside the theatre, real power is carrying on but no one is really analysing it."

madengr 8y ago
He is trolling them, and I find it hilarious, though it’s also about keeping himself in the spotlight. I suppose a narcissist.
- Comevius 8y ago
  There is no need for him to do any of that: the president of the United States is in the spotlight regardless.
  - madengr 8y ago
    He has been in office almost 2 years, and in headline news every, single, day.
ForHackernews 8y ago
The President of the United States wields real power, full stop. He is not an absolute monarch, and other powerful forces may have their own designs, but it's disingenuous to suggest the head of government in the world's largest economy and biggest military power is purely a sideshow to "real power" carrying on elsewhere.
- claudiawerner 8y ago
  The fact of wielding real power means very little in the face of impersonal structures and systems beyond anyone's (and this includes the president's) control. These systems often appear natural and wield powerful ideologies. This was discussed since the early 50s and continued into the studies of Althusser, Marcuse, Debord (Society of the Spectacle) and the like. They allege no sinister concrete plot, only awareness of the very real motions of a system abstracted away from any individual or group, and that includes any and every politician, CEO, etc.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > The fact of wielding real power means very little in the face of impersonal structures and systems beyond anyone's (and this includes the president's) control. No, it doesn't. It means a lot, as is evident in the effect of Presidents on the actual behavior of government. Yes, there are legal, bureaucraticd traditional constraints on Presidential power (but the Presidential power also extends to altering all of those things, though not arbitrarily and instantly.)
- gedy 8y ago
  Sure, but point is maybe the tweets and trolling the media are the sideshow?
  - twtw 8y ago
    Does Trump do anything that he doesn't tweet about? It seems like as soon as he does anything, he has to pat himself on the back by yelling about it on Twitter. So, genuine question - has this administration done anything that hasn't been widely publicized or discussed in the media?
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  Why is it disingenuous? Trump can barely make plans minute to minute, never mind day to day or year to year. If he wasn't insulated by his inherited wealth he'd either be a homeless bum or in jail. When has Trump ever contributed to a detailed industrial or economic strategy for the US? That's never been his job. His job has always been to be the dummy in the window display, while the shop behind him is sold off and looted.
grecy 8y ago
It's a shame, because it means nothing important is actually being done, so nothing is getting better. Everyone is too busy either making outrageous statements, or reacting to them. It's the same in Australia. There have been 7 leaders in 10 years[1], so for the last 10 years the only thing that has happened in Australia is a whole bunch of arguing about who is in charge, a bunch of very expensive elections, and a bunch of very expensive struggles to swap leadership, and very expensive by elections to replace the people who decide to leave after their own party votes them out. Nothing is actually getting any better. [1] I like to say Australia has had more coups than Congo :)
- krrrh 8y ago
  > Nothing is actually getting any better. This is an outrageously strong statement. Many of the things that have gotten better in history have benefitted from the state changing laws, but many many things improve without that. It’s important to remember that politics are only a component of society. Just as important, when “nothing” doesn’t happen, you can also get laws that make things worse, such as the encryption backdoor legislation.
oyji 8y ago
Yup. Yuval Harari calls it an "emotional puppet show" that doesn't produce any outcomes. https://youtu.be/v0sWeLZ8PXg?t=700 https://youtu.be/v0sWeLZ8PXg?t=700
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
PavlovsCat 8y ago
Furthermore, when people are shocked and go "what did he just say?! whatever will he say next??", that doesn't make his supporters defensive, it makes them proud. That is, proud of Trump pissing off the people they are sick of being ignored by. I don't mean to paint all Trump supporters with one brush, but I remember when he said stuff like how he could shoot someone in broad daylight and his supporters wouldn't mind... I was instantly reminded of things Hannah Arendt had written about the Nazis. I'm sorry to "Godwin it" like this, but it's important IMO: > To them, violence, power, cruelty, were the supreme capacities of men who had definitely lost their place in the universe and were much too proud to long for a power theory that would safely bring them back and reintegrate them into the world. They were satisfied with blind partisanship in anything that respectable society had banned, regardless of theory or content, and they elevated cruelty to a major virtue because it contradicted society’s humanitarian and liberal hypocrisy. -- Hannah Arendt Ignore the cruelty and all that -- but having lost ones place in the universe? Check, I'd even say that applies to all of us in a way, and for some people it's very painful, unfair and demeaning. I think they're in parts correct to feel betrayed and angry; because it's not all "just the inevitable result of progress", or "how the world changed" -- without hustlers causing pain for personal gain we'd probably have even more progress, with nobody just outright left in the ditch. The trouble is when that turns into blind partisanship with something that makes "respectable" society turns its nose up, but doesn't actually solve those problems, even makes them worse. And then society has literally no response for 2 years and counting than to turn its nose up some more, while sweeping under the rug how insane it was to let Clinton instead of Sanders run against Trump, without skipping a beat. Because hey, at least it's not being or supporting Trump, right? So while I don't know what will come after Trump, I know that if this continues, whatever comes next will be worse, simply because what is going on is more of what "caused Trump" if you will.
- krapp 8y ago
  In terms of policy, and beliefs, Trump wasn't that far outside the Republican mainstream -- because of course his views are informed by the mainstream. He certainly wasn't the most capable or qualified among the Republican field to actually address anyone's grievances. He wasn't even the most extremist in his ideology. The only things he had going for him were his personal wealth and entertainment value. So what "response" does society owe a group of people who seem to care more about having a voice for the contempt they feel towards modernity than actually having their issues addressed? Trump supporters can't have their cake and eat it too. They could have had a President who was strong on immigration and protectionism but who wasn't also a raving narcissistic blowhard. If you're going to argue that Trump supporters are correct to feel betrayed and angry, fair enough -- but the response of "society" to Trump and his supporters and their exclusionary response to that anger is not entirely unjustified, either. It simply isn't true that "society" is composed of feckless elites incapable of self-awareness on one side (inevitably the side with all of the liberals, feminists, most immigrants, "city dwellers" and Democrats in it), and Trump supporters with their righteous indignation on the other. It isn't true that there has been literally no response to Trump other than "society turning up its nose even more", and it isn't true that the situation with Bernie has been swept under any rug, "without skipping a beat." Unfortunately, it seems that your comment, while rightly denouncing blind partisanship, also falls prey to populist propaganda that encourages a blindly partisan view of society and its issues.
zzzeek 8y ago
This will probably be unpopular opinion but I found it striking how he feels the biggest problem with Trump is how liberals react to him, not the vast numbers of ignorant crypto racists the who put him in power and continue to support him.
- Joeboy 8y ago
  He's saying the problem is that Trump doesn't have an effective political opposition.
  - zzzeek 8y ago
    Yet the opposition won the largest midterm house victory in decades. All that liberal outrage may have been useful. Conservative elites who laugh at the whole process will have us to thank when we finally take a much needed check against an outrageously corrupt and incompetent administration.
  - tjr225 8y ago
    Just the other day I was in downtown Seattle and there was a protest going on - which isn't a strange occurance - and as someone who is probably even further to the left than these protesters, I couldn't help but think that while I essentially agree with everything the protesters are saying, it is a real shame that these people are so bad at communication, unification, and even garnering any real enthusiasm about them. They're bad at their jobs.
  - okr 8y ago
    That is no wonder to me. None of their outrage touches my heart anymore. To me its just screaming. I stopped listening. Which is probably very unfair, because everyone wants just to live a good life. People have some different ideas on how to achieve them. I did not expect such a divide.
- krapp 8y ago
  > not the vast numbers of ignorant crypto racists the who put him in power and continue to support him. That arguably is not a problem with Trump, but a problem with the reactionary nature of modern American politics, and the success with which the alt-right and white supremacist movements hijacked the anti-globalist sentiment behind Trump and resold it as being fundamentally about lower-class white struggle.
ripsawridge 8y ago
There is an esoteric/occult idea that if you want something to stick around, you oppose it directly. Something "bad" (and I'd call the willful ignorance and lowest common denominator style of the current White House bad) actually moves towards chaos and dissolution. Fight it, and you lock it into it's current orbital position. This is not right/wrong or good/bad, simply a kind of physics.

by gedy 8y ago

madengr 8y ago

He is trolling them, and I find it hilarious, though it’s also about keeping himself in the spotlight. I suppose a narcissist.

Comevius 8y ago
There is no need for him to do any of that: the president of the United States is in the spotlight regardless.
- madengr 8y ago
  He has been in office almost 2 years, and in headline news every, single, day.

ForHackernews 8y ago

The President of the United States wields real power, full stop. He is not an absolute monarch, and other powerful forces may have their own designs, but it's disingenuous to suggest the head of government in the world's largest economy and biggest military power is purely a sideshow to "real power" carrying on elsewhere.

claudiawerner 8y ago
The fact of wielding real power means very little in the face of impersonal structures and systems beyond anyone's (and this includes the president's) control. These systems often appear natural and wield powerful ideologies. This was discussed since the early 50s and continued into the studies of Althusser, Marcuse, Debord (Society of the Spectacle) and the like. They allege no sinister concrete plot, only awareness of the very real motions of a system abstracted away from any individual or group, and that includes any and every politician, CEO, etc.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > The fact of wielding real power means very little in the face of impersonal structures and systems beyond anyone's (and this includes the president's) control. No, it doesn't. It means a lot, as is evident in the effect of Presidents on the actual behavior of government. Yes, there are legal, bureaucraticd traditional constraints on Presidential power (but the Presidential power also extends to altering all of those things, though not arbitrarily and instantly.)
gedy 8y ago
Sure, but point is maybe the tweets and trolling the media are the sideshow?
- twtw 8y ago
  Does Trump do anything that he doesn't tweet about? It seems like as soon as he does anything, he has to pat himself on the back by yelling about it on Twitter. So, genuine question - has this administration done anything that hasn't been widely publicized or discussed in the media?
TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
Why is it disingenuous? Trump can barely make plans minute to minute, never mind day to day or year to year. If he wasn't insulated by his inherited wealth he'd either be a homeless bum or in jail. When has Trump ever contributed to a detailed industrial or economic strategy for the US? That's never been his job. His job has always been to be the dummy in the window display, while the shop behind him is sold off and looted.

grecy 8y ago

It's a shame, because it means nothing important is actually being done, so nothing is getting better. Everyone is too busy either making outrageous statements, or reacting to them. It's the same in Australia. There have been 7 leaders in 10 years[1], so for the last 10 years the only thing that has happened in Australia is a whole bunch of arguing about who is in charge, a bunch of very expensive elections, and a bunch of very expensive struggles to swap leadership, and very expensive by elections to replace the people who decide to leave after their own party votes them out. Nothing is actually getting any better. [1] I like to say Australia has had more coups than Congo :)

krrrh 8y ago
> Nothing is actually getting any better. This is an outrageously strong statement. Many of the things that have gotten better in history have benefitted from the state changing laws, but many many things improve without that. It’s important to remember that politics are only a component of society. Just as important, when “nothing” doesn’t happen, you can also get laws that make things worse, such as the encryption backdoor legislation.

oyji 8y ago

Yup. Yuval Harari calls it an "emotional puppet show" that doesn't produce any outcomes. https://youtu.be/v0sWeLZ8PXg?t=700 https://youtu.be/v0sWeLZ8PXg?t=700

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

PavlovsCat 8y ago

Furthermore, when people are shocked and go "what did he just say?! whatever will he say next??", that doesn't make his supporters defensive, it makes them proud. That is, proud of Trump pissing off the people they are sick of being ignored by. I don't mean to paint all Trump supporters with one brush, but I remember when he said stuff like how he could shoot someone in broad daylight and his supporters wouldn't mind... I was instantly reminded of things Hannah Arendt had written about the Nazis. I'm sorry to "Godwin it" like this, but it's important IMO: > To them, violence, power, cruelty, were the supreme capacities of men who had definitely lost their place in the universe and were much too proud to long for a power theory that would safely bring them back and reintegrate them into the world. They were satisfied with blind partisanship in anything that respectable society had banned, regardless of theory or content, and they elevated cruelty to a major virtue because it contradicted society’s humanitarian and liberal hypocrisy. -- Hannah Arendt Ignore the cruelty and all that -- but having lost ones place in the universe? Check, I'd even say that applies to all of us in a way, and for some people it's very painful, unfair and demeaning. I think they're in parts correct to feel betrayed and angry; because it's not all "just the inevitable result of progress", or "how the world changed" -- without hustlers causing pain for personal gain we'd probably have even more progress, with nobody just outright left in the ditch. The trouble is when that turns into blind partisanship with something that makes "respectable" society turns its nose up, but doesn't actually solve those problems, even makes them worse. And then society has literally no response for 2 years and counting than to turn its nose up some more, while sweeping under the rug how insane it was to let Clinton instead of Sanders run against Trump, without skipping a beat. Because hey, at least it's not being or supporting Trump, right? So while I don't know what will come after Trump, I know that if this continues, whatever comes next will be worse, simply because what is going on is more of what "caused Trump" if you will.

krapp 8y ago
In terms of policy, and beliefs, Trump wasn't that far outside the Republican mainstream -- because of course his views are informed by the mainstream. He certainly wasn't the most capable or qualified among the Republican field to actually address anyone's grievances. He wasn't even the most extremist in his ideology. The only things he had going for him were his personal wealth and entertainment value. So what "response" does society owe a group of people who seem to care more about having a voice for the contempt they feel towards modernity than actually having their issues addressed? Trump supporters can't have their cake and eat it too. They could have had a President who was strong on immigration and protectionism but who wasn't also a raving narcissistic blowhard. If you're going to argue that Trump supporters are correct to feel betrayed and angry, fair enough -- but the response of "society" to Trump and his supporters and their exclusionary response to that anger is not entirely unjustified, either. It simply isn't true that "society" is composed of feckless elites incapable of self-awareness on one side (inevitably the side with all of the liberals, feminists, most immigrants, "city dwellers" and Democrats in it), and Trump supporters with their righteous indignation on the other. It isn't true that there has been literally no response to Trump other than "society turning up its nose even more", and it isn't true that the situation with Bernie has been swept under any rug, "without skipping a beat." Unfortunately, it seems that your comment, while rightly denouncing blind partisanship, also falls prey to populist propaganda that encourages a blindly partisan view of society and its issues.

zzzeek 8y ago

This will probably be unpopular opinion but I found it striking how he feels the biggest problem with Trump is how liberals react to him, not the vast numbers of ignorant crypto racists the who put him in power and continue to support him.

Joeboy 8y ago
He's saying the problem is that Trump doesn't have an effective political opposition.
- zzzeek 8y ago
  Yet the opposition won the largest midterm house victory in decades. All that liberal outrage may have been useful. Conservative elites who laugh at the whole process will have us to thank when we finally take a much needed check against an outrageously corrupt and incompetent administration.
- tjr225 8y ago
  Just the other day I was in downtown Seattle and there was a protest going on - which isn't a strange occurance - and as someone who is probably even further to the left than these protesters, I couldn't help but think that while I essentially agree with everything the protesters are saying, it is a real shame that these people are so bad at communication, unification, and even garnering any real enthusiasm about them. They're bad at their jobs.
- okr 8y ago
  That is no wonder to me. None of their outrage touches my heart anymore. To me its just screaming. I stopped listening. Which is probably very unfair, because everyone wants just to live a good life. People have some different ideas on how to achieve them. I did not expect such a divide.
krapp 8y ago
> not the vast numbers of ignorant crypto racists the who put him in power and continue to support him. That arguably is not a problem with Trump, but a problem with the reactionary nature of modern American politics, and the success with which the alt-right and white supremacist movements hijacked the anti-globalist sentiment behind Trump and resold it as being fundamentally about lower-class white struggle.

ripsawridge 8y ago

There is an esoteric/occult idea that if you want something to stick around, you oppose it directly. Something "bad" (and I'd call the willful ignorance and lowest common denominator style of the current White House bad) actually moves towards chaos and dissolution. Fight it, and you lock it into it's current orbital position. This is not right/wrong or good/bad, simply a kind of physics.