2 ms·

> well, if my local factory can dump toxic waste in the river, why can't I? Yes, that can be one interpretation, but only with intended irony, not literally.

by tagrun 8y ago

> well, if my local factory can dump toxic waste in the river, why can't I? Yes, that can be one interpretation, but only with intended irony, not literally. But suppose you're saying it literally; you wouldn't because you're living there. And also because regulations will never allow you to, because your local company has your politicians in their pockets and they effectively get a free pass in the form of bills thanks to ~~legitimized bribing~~ lobbying while you'll just be sent to prison. Which is a part of the irony I was trying to point out. > My ultimate goal is to keep the river clean, not to make things fair. It's very easy to say such things. Words are cheap. How exactly were you going to keep the river clean toward your ultimate goal, again? By offering your stashed billions on the moon as counter-lobby during next elections? Are you also going give us World Peace and unicorns while you're at it? Or assuming you also know how unrealistic you actually sound, would you just be content by opposing the dissent in favor of the status quo by pretending to take the moral high ground?

danShumway 8y ago
I assume that most people here are trying to make a point with the suggestion, not actually to trying to suggest an action that normal people should take. The fact that it's ridiculous to imagine tying a TOS to an HTTP request is illustrative of the fact that it's ridiculous to tie a TOS to the response. > It's very easy to say such things. How exactly were you going to keep the river toward your ultimate goal, again? Again, I get that you're probably just trying to talk about how broken our current legal system is and how difficult it is to change that. I agree, and I'm probably preaching to the choir when I say this. But if you mean it meant literally, I would say that a good starting point is trying not to one-up the factories with our own pollution. It is very hard to stop factories from dumping toxic waste into the river. It is harder to stop both factories and every one of my neighbors from dumping toxic waste into the river. That's all that I'm getting at. TOS reform is already a very hard problem, and we should avoid making it harder than it already is. I can imagine that it might feel good for someone to say, "if corporations don't want to play fair, then we'll make it so literally every action on the web will require a lawyer," in the same way that it might feel good to say, "if corporations don't care about the environment, we'll see how they feel once we've just burned all the trees." But that would really be cutting off our own noses to spite our collective face.

by tagrun 8y ago

danShumway 8y ago

I assume that most people here are trying to make a point with the suggestion, not actually to trying to suggest an action that normal people should take. The fact that it's ridiculous to imagine tying a TOS to an HTTP request is illustrative of the fact that it's ridiculous to tie a TOS to the response. > It's very easy to say such things. How exactly were you going to keep the river toward your ultimate goal, again? Again, I get that you're probably just trying to talk about how broken our current legal system is and how difficult it is to change that. I agree, and I'm probably preaching to the choir when I say this. But if you mean it meant literally, I would say that a good starting point is trying not to one-up the factories with our own pollution. It is very hard to stop factories from dumping toxic waste into the river. It is harder to stop both factories and every one of my neighbors from dumping toxic waste into the river. That's all that I'm getting at. TOS reform is already a very hard problem, and we should avoid making it harder than it already is. I can imagine that it might feel good for someone to say, "if corporations don't want to play fair, then we'll make it so literally every action on the web will require a lawyer," in the same way that it might feel good to say, "if corporations don't care about the environment, we'll see how they feel once we've just burned all the trees." But that would really be cutting off our own noses to spite our collective face.