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I remember from a youtube video that the spacetime inside the black hole flipped around, where space becomes temporal dimension and time becomes spatial dimensi

I remember from a youtube video that the spacetime inside the black hole flipped around, where space becomes temporal dimension and time becomes spatial dimension (i.e. time is traversable in either direction while the singularity becomes an inevitable place in the "future").

rabito 8y ago
That is true, the time and space axis gets flipped at the event horizon. This also happens to a fast moving objects due to relativistic effects, although the roatation is usually not very high unless you go really fast. Seehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_diagram https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_diagram However that doesn't mean you can't move when you cross the event horizon. You can do that like usual (except for gravity pulling you inside. You can. It only means outside observer won't be able to see what you're doing, because of the time dilation (and the event horizon of course). This kinda implies time and space are the same thing, it just depends on your point of view. Still have to see about that :D
- jgrowl 8y ago
  To be pedantic, it's not that they are the same thing, but that they are intrinsically tied together: Time begins at the moment of first inflation.
- pdonis 8y ago
  > the time and space axis gets flipped at the event horizon. This also happens to a fast moving objects due to relativistic effects Neither of these things are true, and I have no idea how you are getting either of them from the Wikipedia article you linked to. Penrose-Terrell rotation, which affects how objects appear to observers when they are moving at relativistic speeds relative to those observers, does not "flip" the time or space axes; it's an optical effect due to the finite speed of light. As I noted in another post upthread, the "flip" of time and space axes inside a black hole's horizon is a property of a particular choice of coordinates, not of spacetime itself. > This kinda implies time and space are the same thing No, they aren't, because there is still a fundamental difference between timelike and spacelike directions in spacetime. That is true regardless of how you choose coordinate axes.
  - grigjd3 8y ago
    People often mistakenly try to map space time onto an ether-like flat background, treating spacetime like a drawing where the paper is the background. It's not an uncommon kind of fumbling as someone tries to grasp these things.
im3w1l 8y ago
I wonder if inside the black hole the singularity behaves more like past than it behaves like future.
- pdonis 8y ago
  No, it doesn't. The singularity inside a black hole is a future singularity, not a past singularity.
  - im3w1l 8y ago
    Just to clarify, you mean it's a future singularity in the entropy sense, or in some other sense?
    - ben_w 8y ago
      Iff I understand correctly, what pdonis is saying is that it is in your future. It’s where (when?) you run out of future to go into, in a way which may or may not be analogous to the North Pole being the coordinate singularity where you run out of north to move in.
      - tanto 8y ago
        So it's the end of time in a sense?
        ben_w 8y ago
        That’s my understanding, but I’m just an enthusiastic amateur and that doesn’t take you very far with relativity.
joemag 8y ago
This is from PBS Spacetime series [1]. A fantastic channel, and they did a number of videos on black holes. [1] https://youtu.be/KePNhUJ2reI https://youtu.be/KePNhUJ2reI
pdonis 8y ago
> spacetime inside the black hole flipped around, where space becomes temporal dimension and time becomes spatial dimension No, this is not correct. The "flip" is in a particular choice of coordinates, not in spacetime itself. > time is traversable in either direction while the singularity becomes an inevitable place in the "future" It is true that the singularity is inevitably in the future--that's because inside the horizon, the future "time" direction points towards the singularity. But time is still only traversable into the future; you can't "reverse" your travel in time inside the horizon.

rabito 8y ago

That is true, the time and space axis gets flipped at the event horizon. This also happens to a fast moving objects due to relativistic effects, although the roatation is usually not very high unless you go really fast. Seehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_diagram https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_diagram However that doesn't mean you can't move when you cross the event horizon. You can do that like usual (except for gravity pulling you inside. You can. It only means outside observer won't be able to see what you're doing, because of the time dilation (and the event horizon of course). This kinda implies time and space are the same thing, it just depends on your point of view. Still have to see about that :D

jgrowl 8y ago
To be pedantic, it's not that they are the same thing, but that they are intrinsically tied together: Time begins at the moment of first inflation.
pdonis 8y ago
> the time and space axis gets flipped at the event horizon. This also happens to a fast moving objects due to relativistic effects Neither of these things are true, and I have no idea how you are getting either of them from the Wikipedia article you linked to. Penrose-Terrell rotation, which affects how objects appear to observers when they are moving at relativistic speeds relative to those observers, does not "flip" the time or space axes; it's an optical effect due to the finite speed of light. As I noted in another post upthread, the "flip" of time and space axes inside a black hole's horizon is a property of a particular choice of coordinates, not of spacetime itself. > This kinda implies time and space are the same thing No, they aren't, because there is still a fundamental difference between timelike and spacelike directions in spacetime. That is true regardless of how you choose coordinate axes.
- grigjd3 8y ago
  People often mistakenly try to map space time onto an ether-like flat background, treating spacetime like a drawing where the paper is the background. It's not an uncommon kind of fumbling as someone tries to grasp these things.

im3w1l 8y ago

I wonder if inside the black hole the singularity behaves more like past than it behaves like future.

pdonis 8y ago
No, it doesn't. The singularity inside a black hole is a future singularity, not a past singularity.
- im3w1l 8y ago
  Just to clarify, you mean it's a future singularity in the entropy sense, or in some other sense?
  - ben_w 8y ago
    Iff I understand correctly, what pdonis is saying is that it is in your future. It’s where (when?) you run out of future to go into, in a way which may or may not be analogous to the North Pole being the coordinate singularity where you run out of north to move in.
    - tanto 8y ago
      So it's the end of time in a sense?
      - ben_w 8y ago
        That’s my understanding, but I’m just an enthusiastic amateur and that doesn’t take you very far with relativity.

joemag 8y ago

This is from PBS Spacetime series [1]. A fantastic channel, and they did a number of videos on black holes. [1] https://youtu.be/KePNhUJ2reI https://youtu.be/KePNhUJ2reI

pdonis 8y ago

> spacetime inside the black hole flipped around, where space becomes temporal dimension and time becomes spatial dimension No, this is not correct. The "flip" is in a particular choice of coordinates, not in spacetime itself. > time is traversable in either direction while the singularity becomes an inevitable place in the "future" It is true that the singularity is inevitably in the future--that's because inside the horizon, the future "time" direction points towards the singularity. But time is still only traversable into the future; you can't "reverse" your travel in time inside the horizon.