7 ms·

My 10yo and 6yo rarely get screen time and when they do it's for something productive and not mind numbing like gaming or Youtube. Every day that goes by with t

by aviv 8y ago

My 10yo and 6yo rarely get screen time and when they do it's for something productive and not mind numbing like gaming or Youtube. Every day that goes by with them being relatively screen-free is a win in my book. They get to be kids - lots of activity outside the house and lots of creativity inside, music, acting, painting. It's hard though as most of their classmates are screen zombies. I just don't understand how most parents don't see this so clearly.

j45 8y ago
I remember my time as a kid - it was spent creating on a computer, because it was the only thing you could do. There was nothing to consume. Today's primary use of devices by children is consuming (Games, videos, etc) and not creating. I think we have to get back to creating.
- wvenable 8y ago
  How old are you? By the time I was in my teens, there was always more games, BBSes, etc. Perhaps the fact that all those things were harder to come by was an advantage but I certainly did spent my whole day on the computer creating.
  - j45 8y ago
    Haha, I think we're close in age, my teens had BBSes and IRC too. Wasted a lot of time in a good way. The connectedness during the early "broad" internet generations in the mid to late 90's was really special. I'm probably not alone in still having some of those friendships to this day. I spent part of my teens on apple, atari st's and then PCs. Creating with multiple platforms is something I'm very thankful for. Games were evolving but had limited power, the imagination was still better graphics. The recent story about the Sierra source code was cool. Online gaming wasn't fast enough, and so other forms of interaction took the day. There's lots of tools today to build games, it doesn't seem a rite of passage anymore to try and write a game or animate something.. Instead it's writing a todo app today.
Klathmon 8y ago
>They get to be kids - lots of activity outside the house and lots of creativity inside, music, acting, painting. It's hard though as most of their classmates are screen zombies. Why do you consider things like painting, acting, and music "creative" things, but not gaming? When I was around 10 years old I was playing Command and Conquer pretty much every moment I could get. I was creating worlds, coming up with my own "metagames", abusing the minimap to draw things in the game. Hell I'm pretty sure I even made up my own story line because I either didn't care about or didn't understand the real one. Even when I was older playing World of Warcraft or any other number of games, it was an experience exploring worlds, creating things, and socializing with friends. When I've seen younger family members playing Minecraft, or Halo, and even Fortnite, I'd argue that it's an extremely creative activity, especially when they are playing with friends online in it. I'm not going to say that constant screens are a good thing, but in moderation (like just about everything), I think they can be a fantastic outlet and an awesome canvas for kids to grow up with.
- badpun 8y ago
  Video games, esp. the ones that kids are into, are consumer items - they are made so that the experience is always relatively easy and rewarding. Pursuing hobbies such as drawing or playing an instrument requires much higher level of dedication, which is great for building character. Games in moderation can be for some entertainment and escapism in an otherwise balanced life, but let's not forget what they truly are - a chewing gum for the mind.
  - Reedx 8y ago
    It depends on the game. Some are junk food and some are nutrient dense. There's a huge difference between Candy Crush and Kerbal Space Program, for example. Plus games are often inspiration for learning programming, design, art, music, writing. Video games are a combination of all these.
  - manfredo 8y ago
    Plenty of games require significant dedication. Mobas like DOTA and league of legends are immensely competitive, and have deep and intricate metagames. Simulation racing games are at least comparable to motorsport. Kerbal Space Program taught me more about space craft than any class or book. Ultimately games are no different than any other medium. Like books, you've got your Twilights and you've got your The Old Man and the Sea. Like film you've got your Transformers and you've got The Godfather.
theseanstewart 8y ago
As a parent, I've never understood this sentiment. Gaming is just another "activity" and to say it's "mind numbing" and not productive is disingenuous. Sure, it can be depending on the game, but so can acting and painting and any other activities that kids do.
- Pfhreak 8y ago
  Sort of... gaming is fairly structured play. Unstructured play for younger children, especially creative play with others, is developmentally advantageous. Gaming isn't "Bad" -- I'm a game developer as well as a parent -- but it's probably a bit over simplified to suggest that it's just another activity. It's not better or worse than painting, for example, but it's important to recognize that it is characteristically different and as a parent it's your responsibility to be intentional about how those differences impact your family.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  The anti-screen sentiment today is like the anti-dungeons and dragons hysteria of the 80s. Back then, D&D would turn your kids into occultists. Today, “screens” will turn your kids into mindless zombies. Some things don’t change.
  - aviv 8y ago
    Are you a parent? It's quite easy to identify screen zombies at any social gathering, be it birthday parties, class school events, etc.
    - ryandrake 8y ago
      Yea I have a six year old. Maybe I lucked out but she and her friends all seem to have a nice mix of interests, both offline and online.
  - wvenable 8y ago
    This generation of parents were pretty much all gamers, D&Ders, and so on. It's not for a lack of understanding. I even play many of the same games as my son and even try to get involved in the ones that don't really appeal to me. But there is something off about kids right now is affecting them in disturbing ways (to a parent). The change is also been really rapid; it was different even 10 years ago. It seems to me like a large number of parents seem to be struggling with it.
julienchastang 8y ago
Out of curiosity, how do you enforce this? What are your parenting techniques to steer them away from screens? How do you have your kids choose music over Minecraft, painting over Fortnite, acting over Youtube? How does the screen not win in those situations? I would be interested reading your insights. I think many parents see it as clearly as you do, but don't have the same success.
- aviv 8y ago
  It all comes from the home. For example, as parents we make every effort not to be on our phones around the kids. Some kids truly believe they are competing with a mobile device for their parents' attention, it's quite sad. Second, we just do fun stuff. Over time they just developed the innate desire to be active and not be dumbed down by screen time. It's just nature. Why would a kid prefer to sit on a couch and stare at an iPad when they can run wild in the backyard or be active as a gymnist or at theater? Screen zombie is a learned behavior, I feel like it is usually a result of uninvolved parents. Lastly, just don't have the screens at home. We don't have a TV. How is my kid going to be addicted to a TV without... hmm, a TV? Same goes for other screens. Start young... our kids also eat healthy. At this point they know to politely refuse unhealthy snacks, candy, etc. at playdates and other social events. They know they're not really missing out on much. When they do "splurge" and eat crap, they feel like crap. Our kids are very in tune with their bodies, physical and mental state. Just because other kids play Fortnite, do I need to give in as a parent? No. Same goes for dietary restrictions and other choices parents have.
jccalhoun 8y ago
So are their classmates who are screen zombies in any measurable way worse off on average than your kids? While I certainly think exercise is important, what is the perceived harm of "too much" screen time?
- watwut 8y ago
  I knew people on both college and high school playing overnights, going to tests sleep deprived and then failing or having trouble to pass. It had impact on their grades, jobs and relationships (whether with girlfriend, family or friends). I don't know people who would sleep deprive themselves to the same level due to drawing, reading, sport or craft.
- aviv 8y ago
  From my observation, definitely. They lack social skills, common sense, empathy, have little tolerance for idle/down time, and are physically (and emotionally) weaker and often have excess weight. Their maturity level is also lower and they stress easily due to not having a healthy amount of coping skills for real life scenarios.
atom-morgan 8y ago
This reminds me of the kids I knew growing up whose parents gave them little to no freedom. They always ended up being the craziest when parents weren't around.
- aviv 8y ago
  It's funny, sometimes we think our kids have TOO much freedom. They are in a montessori school, so right off the bat they have much more freedom than most kids in a standard school in terms of what they learn and choices throughout the school day. Then at home they are free to explore and take part in anything that interests them. We don't limit the activities because of money - they are in soccer, theater, gymnastics, hocky, rock climbing, painting, and more. When they're not glued to a screen - they have so much free time.
  - atom-morgan 8y ago
    > We don't limit the activities because of money But you do limit their activities? They're in theater? Imagine some of the amazing storytelling they're missing out on in video games simply because of the medium in which the story is told. The same for painting. If it wasn't for my love of video games and Neopets, I never would have picked up Photoshop and started making graphics for other people I met on forums when I was a kid even if I was glued to a screen. They also play sports. Plenty of parallel lessons you could learn in competitive video gaming that doesn't carry as much of a stigma as something like chess or even less physical, traditional sports.
claar 8y ago
The negative reaction to your comment is surprising. The difference between "screen zombie children" and children with limited screen time is striking and not difficult to observe or quantify. The difference is clear in our own children based on our current family rules, and of course evident in their various friends. Those asking you for "evidence" that the screen zombie children are worse off are either 1. not parents, 2. parents of screen zombie children, or perhaps 3. experiencing something much different than what I've encountered. When my children play video games, especially to excess, they experience something similar to the "brain fog" I experience when I am tired, my diet is off, etc. They also are notably more distracted, selfish and generally unruly. My hypothesis is that this is due to dopamine withdrawal causing their brainpower to be devoted to thoughts about gaming.
- aviv 8y ago
  I think the negative reaction to my comment is out of parental guilt.
  - c0nducktr 8y ago
    I don't think so, as I had a negative reaction to your comment but don't have children. People can disagree with your choices without it being due to guilt.
- manfredo 8y ago
  I think it's erroneous to assume that being a "screen zombie" is inherently non-productive. I played a shitload of games in K-12. Probably several hours per day. But my parents didn't care as long as I kept taking the hardest honors and AP classes and getting a 4.0. My "screen zombie" time got me interested in modding games and evetually making games. This, in turn, helped me discover a passion for software development which had brought me the immense benefit of being employed in a field that is both lucrative and enjoyable for me. If I wasn't a "screen zombie" I may well have ended up worse off as a result, and I can see why people may come off as defensive when parents judge children that use technology heavily because it's also juding the childhood that a lot of said parents grew up in. Ultimately I reserve judgement of parents as long as their kids are maturing reasonably. A variety of parenting choices means a variety of perspectives and experiences in adulthood.
sotojuan 8y ago
What's your experience with your kid's friends? If they hang out or sleep over at their house, they will play video games. I also question the need to always be productive. Do your kids ever get downtime? Some of my favorite childhood memories are watching movies with my family or playing games with my friends or brother.
- aviv 8y ago
  We're lucky enough to have friends that pretty much have a similar parenting style, so it's not an issue, but yes, some kids that come to our house are "bored" because we don't have a screen or video games or any of that. They (the other kids) don't know how to be a kid anymore (in terms of playing outside, playing board games, etc.), which stresses them out. It's quite sad actually. And yes, they get plenty of downtime. We don't force any activity on them or force them to be "productive". Anything really that they do is more productive than playing a video game - even sitting in the backyard staring at the sky.

by aviv 8y ago

j45 8y ago

I remember my time as a kid - it was spent creating on a computer, because it was the only thing you could do. There was nothing to consume. Today's primary use of devices by children is consuming (Games, videos, etc) and not creating. I think we have to get back to creating.

wvenable 8y ago
How old are you? By the time I was in my teens, there was always more games, BBSes, etc. Perhaps the fact that all those things were harder to come by was an advantage but I certainly did spent my whole day on the computer creating.
- j45 8y ago
  Haha, I think we're close in age, my teens had BBSes and IRC too. Wasted a lot of time in a good way. The connectedness during the early "broad" internet generations in the mid to late 90's was really special. I'm probably not alone in still having some of those friendships to this day. I spent part of my teens on apple, atari st's and then PCs. Creating with multiple platforms is something I'm very thankful for. Games were evolving but had limited power, the imagination was still better graphics. The recent story about the Sierra source code was cool. Online gaming wasn't fast enough, and so other forms of interaction took the day. There's lots of tools today to build games, it doesn't seem a rite of passage anymore to try and write a game or animate something.. Instead it's writing a todo app today.

Klathmon 8y ago

>They get to be kids - lots of activity outside the house and lots of creativity inside, music, acting, painting. It's hard though as most of their classmates are screen zombies. Why do you consider things like painting, acting, and music "creative" things, but not gaming? When I was around 10 years old I was playing Command and Conquer pretty much every moment I could get. I was creating worlds, coming up with my own "metagames", abusing the minimap to draw things in the game. Hell I'm pretty sure I even made up my own story line because I either didn't care about or didn't understand the real one. Even when I was older playing World of Warcraft or any other number of games, it was an experience exploring worlds, creating things, and socializing with friends. When I've seen younger family members playing Minecraft, or Halo, and even Fortnite, I'd argue that it's an extremely creative activity, especially when they are playing with friends online in it. I'm not going to say that constant screens are a good thing, but in moderation (like just about everything), I think they can be a fantastic outlet and an awesome canvas for kids to grow up with.

badpun 8y ago
Video games, esp. the ones that kids are into, are consumer items - they are made so that the experience is always relatively easy and rewarding. Pursuing hobbies such as drawing or playing an instrument requires much higher level of dedication, which is great for building character. Games in moderation can be for some entertainment and escapism in an otherwise balanced life, but let's not forget what they truly are - a chewing gum for the mind.
- Reedx 8y ago
  It depends on the game. Some are junk food and some are nutrient dense. There's a huge difference between Candy Crush and Kerbal Space Program, for example. Plus games are often inspiration for learning programming, design, art, music, writing. Video games are a combination of all these.
- manfredo 8y ago
  Plenty of games require significant dedication. Mobas like DOTA and league of legends are immensely competitive, and have deep and intricate metagames. Simulation racing games are at least comparable to motorsport. Kerbal Space Program taught me more about space craft than any class or book. Ultimately games are no different than any other medium. Like books, you've got your Twilights and you've got your The Old Man and the Sea. Like film you've got your Transformers and you've got The Godfather.

theseanstewart 8y ago

As a parent, I've never understood this sentiment. Gaming is just another "activity" and to say it's "mind numbing" and not productive is disingenuous. Sure, it can be depending on the game, but so can acting and painting and any other activities that kids do.

Pfhreak 8y ago
Sort of... gaming is fairly structured play. Unstructured play for younger children, especially creative play with others, is developmentally advantageous. Gaming isn't "Bad" -- I'm a game developer as well as a parent -- but it's probably a bit over simplified to suggest that it's just another activity. It's not better or worse than painting, for example, but it's important to recognize that it is characteristically different and as a parent it's your responsibility to be intentional about how those differences impact your family.
ryandrake 8y ago
The anti-screen sentiment today is like the anti-dungeons and dragons hysteria of the 80s. Back then, D&D would turn your kids into occultists. Today, “screens” will turn your kids into mindless zombies. Some things don’t change.
- aviv 8y ago
  Are you a parent? It's quite easy to identify screen zombies at any social gathering, be it birthday parties, class school events, etc.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    Yea I have a six year old. Maybe I lucked out but she and her friends all seem to have a nice mix of interests, both offline and online.
- wvenable 8y ago
  This generation of parents were pretty much all gamers, D&Ders, and so on. It's not for a lack of understanding. I even play many of the same games as my son and even try to get involved in the ones that don't really appeal to me. But there is something off about kids right now is affecting them in disturbing ways (to a parent). The change is also been really rapid; it was different even 10 years ago. It seems to me like a large number of parents seem to be struggling with it.

julienchastang 8y ago

Out of curiosity, how do you enforce this? What are your parenting techniques to steer them away from screens? How do you have your kids choose music over Minecraft, painting over Fortnite, acting over Youtube? How does the screen not win in those situations? I would be interested reading your insights. I think many parents see it as clearly as you do, but don't have the same success.

aviv 8y ago
It all comes from the home. For example, as parents we make every effort not to be on our phones around the kids. Some kids truly believe they are competing with a mobile device for their parents' attention, it's quite sad. Second, we just do fun stuff. Over time they just developed the innate desire to be active and not be dumbed down by screen time. It's just nature. Why would a kid prefer to sit on a couch and stare at an iPad when they can run wild in the backyard or be active as a gymnist or at theater? Screen zombie is a learned behavior, I feel like it is usually a result of uninvolved parents. Lastly, just don't have the screens at home. We don't have a TV. How is my kid going to be addicted to a TV without... hmm, a TV? Same goes for other screens. Start young... our kids also eat healthy. At this point they know to politely refuse unhealthy snacks, candy, etc. at playdates and other social events. They know they're not really missing out on much. When they do "splurge" and eat crap, they feel like crap. Our kids are very in tune with their bodies, physical and mental state. Just because other kids play Fortnite, do I need to give in as a parent? No. Same goes for dietary restrictions and other choices parents have.

jccalhoun 8y ago

So are their classmates who are screen zombies in any measurable way worse off on average than your kids? While I certainly think exercise is important, what is the perceived harm of "too much" screen time?

watwut 8y ago
I knew people on both college and high school playing overnights, going to tests sleep deprived and then failing or having trouble to pass. It had impact on their grades, jobs and relationships (whether with girlfriend, family or friends). I don't know people who would sleep deprive themselves to the same level due to drawing, reading, sport or craft.
aviv 8y ago
From my observation, definitely. They lack social skills, common sense, empathy, have little tolerance for idle/down time, and are physically (and emotionally) weaker and often have excess weight. Their maturity level is also lower and they stress easily due to not having a healthy amount of coping skills for real life scenarios.

atom-morgan 8y ago

This reminds me of the kids I knew growing up whose parents gave them little to no freedom. They always ended up being the craziest when parents weren't around.

aviv 8y ago
It's funny, sometimes we think our kids have TOO much freedom. They are in a montessori school, so right off the bat they have much more freedom than most kids in a standard school in terms of what they learn and choices throughout the school day. Then at home they are free to explore and take part in anything that interests them. We don't limit the activities because of money - they are in soccer, theater, gymnastics, hocky, rock climbing, painting, and more. When they're not glued to a screen - they have so much free time.
- atom-morgan 8y ago
  > We don't limit the activities because of money But you do limit their activities? They're in theater? Imagine some of the amazing storytelling they're missing out on in video games simply because of the medium in which the story is told. The same for painting. If it wasn't for my love of video games and Neopets, I never would have picked up Photoshop and started making graphics for other people I met on forums when I was a kid even if I was glued to a screen. They also play sports. Plenty of parallel lessons you could learn in competitive video gaming that doesn't carry as much of a stigma as something like chess or even less physical, traditional sports.

claar 8y ago

The negative reaction to your comment is surprising. The difference between "screen zombie children" and children with limited screen time is striking and not difficult to observe or quantify. The difference is clear in our own children based on our current family rules, and of course evident in their various friends. Those asking you for "evidence" that the screen zombie children are worse off are either 1. not parents, 2. parents of screen zombie children, or perhaps 3. experiencing something much different than what I've encountered. When my children play video games, especially to excess, they experience something similar to the "brain fog" I experience when I am tired, my diet is off, etc. They also are notably more distracted, selfish and generally unruly. My hypothesis is that this is due to dopamine withdrawal causing their brainpower to be devoted to thoughts about gaming.

aviv 8y ago
I think the negative reaction to my comment is out of parental guilt.
- c0nducktr 8y ago
  I don't think so, as I had a negative reaction to your comment but don't have children. People can disagree with your choices without it being due to guilt.
manfredo 8y ago
I think it's erroneous to assume that being a "screen zombie" is inherently non-productive. I played a shitload of games in K-12. Probably several hours per day. But my parents didn't care as long as I kept taking the hardest honors and AP classes and getting a 4.0. My "screen zombie" time got me interested in modding games and evetually making games. This, in turn, helped me discover a passion for software development which had brought me the immense benefit of being employed in a field that is both lucrative and enjoyable for me. If I wasn't a "screen zombie" I may well have ended up worse off as a result, and I can see why people may come off as defensive when parents judge children that use technology heavily because it's also juding the childhood that a lot of said parents grew up in. Ultimately I reserve judgement of parents as long as their kids are maturing reasonably. A variety of parenting choices means a variety of perspectives and experiences in adulthood.

sotojuan 8y ago

What's your experience with your kid's friends? If they hang out or sleep over at their house, they will play video games. I also question the need to always be productive. Do your kids ever get downtime? Some of my favorite childhood memories are watching movies with my family or playing games with my friends or brother.

aviv 8y ago
We're lucky enough to have friends that pretty much have a similar parenting style, so it's not an issue, but yes, some kids that come to our house are "bored" because we don't have a screen or video games or any of that. They (the other kids) don't know how to be a kid anymore (in terms of playing outside, playing board games, etc.), which stresses them out. It's quite sad actually. And yes, they get plenty of downtime. We don't force any activity on them or force them to be "productive". Anything really that they do is more productive than playing a video game - even sitting in the backyard staring at the sky.