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I'm involved in a study of vaccinations. One good thing I'm seeing is that many peds clinics, if you are a pure, down the line anti-vaxxer, will politely ask yo

I'm involved in a study of vaccinations. One good thing I'm seeing is that many peds clinics, if you are a pure, down the line anti-vaxxer, will politely ask you to choose another provider.

r00fus 8y ago
How does this go, usually? They ask you to choose someone else then decline future appointments? Have you seen anything similar for urgent-care clinics?
- cabaalis 8y ago
  I don't see this in urgent care. I am talking about peds. You bring your newborn in, but start refusing vaccinations. I have spoken in person with over a dozen clinics who categorize themselves as "no-refusal" clinics. They will medically defer, and in some cases allow refusal of STD vaccines. But a person who just doesn't want vaccinations will likely be disenrolled from the register.
  - Simon_says 8y ago
    That's an interesting moral problem. I don't begrudge those clinics their choice. Maybe they think they're protecting the other patients in the waiting room. But what would you think of a doctor who declines to treat an alcoholic because the alcoholic persists in his drinking? Does a doctor have a duty to care for people regardless of their actions?
    - cabaalis 8y ago
      I'm not a doctor, I just study their data. But I think from what I'm hearing, they've made what they think is the most moral choice. Vaccines have very specific age ranges, and if they continue to see a patient without giving them the vaccine, I think they've decided that that interferes with their do no harm.
danielvf 8y ago
I agree that pediatric practices refusing service to no-vaxers is the norm in the US. I've have a few friends who range between full on anti-vax vs being skeptical of one or two, and I’ve heard a few stories. It seems that a parent asking for their child to not receive one or two of the 20-50 vaccines the pediatrician gives by default has about a 50% chance of being kicked out of the practice. As you said, asking for no vaccines is about a 99% chance. However, pediatricians have a racket where they will not accept a new child (unless they moved to the area) unless they saw the child within a week of its birth. Thus, when you get kicked out, you are out. You can't see a pediatrician anymore unless you drive 80 miles to sketchy 90's new-age pediatrician in a dingy strip mall, and you can't get any more vaccines unless you go on the correct afternoon of the second week of the month to a government clinic in the part of town with litter and shootings. This has pushed several people I know into not getting further vaccinations when they were getting 95%. Maybe it's just our area, and the whole US isn't doesn’t have pediatric practices like this...
- epmaybe 8y ago
  I can't say I've actually heard this being a thing in my part of the country. However, you mentioned the following: > (unless they moved to the area) Why not just lie and say you just moved to this part of the city/town/state? The only downside is that they'll ask about previous records which could get you caught. And further, what would be a potential reason for refusing to take care of a patient if you didn't follow them from week 1? I honestly can't think of one besides continuity of care.
  - burntwater 8y ago
    I'm guessing it's a malpractice concern. All kinds of things can happen in the first week that aren't visible until a few years later. Who's to blame? The pediatrician who has been taking care of the child for 99% of their life... except for the first critical week...
    - epmaybe 8y ago
      Not sure I understand. If you're even less likely to be at blame since you weren't even there for those "critical" days, I would imagine there'd be less liability.

I'm involved in a study of vaccinations. One good thing I'm seeing is that many peds clinics, if you are a pure, down the line anti-vaxxer, will politely ask you to choose another provider.

r00fus 8y ago

How does this go, usually? They ask you to choose someone else then decline future appointments? Have you seen anything similar for urgent-care clinics?

cabaalis 8y ago
I don't see this in urgent care. I am talking about peds. You bring your newborn in, but start refusing vaccinations. I have spoken in person with over a dozen clinics who categorize themselves as "no-refusal" clinics. They will medically defer, and in some cases allow refusal of STD vaccines. But a person who just doesn't want vaccinations will likely be disenrolled from the register.
- Simon_says 8y ago
  That's an interesting moral problem. I don't begrudge those clinics their choice. Maybe they think they're protecting the other patients in the waiting room. But what would you think of a doctor who declines to treat an alcoholic because the alcoholic persists in his drinking? Does a doctor have a duty to care for people regardless of their actions?
  - cabaalis 8y ago
    I'm not a doctor, I just study their data. But I think from what I'm hearing, they've made what they think is the most moral choice. Vaccines have very specific age ranges, and if they continue to see a patient without giving them the vaccine, I think they've decided that that interferes with their do no harm.

danielvf 8y ago

I agree that pediatric practices refusing service to no-vaxers is the norm in the US. I've have a few friends who range between full on anti-vax vs being skeptical of one or two, and I’ve heard a few stories. It seems that a parent asking for their child to not receive one or two of the 20-50 vaccines the pediatrician gives by default has about a 50% chance of being kicked out of the practice. As you said, asking for no vaccines is about a 99% chance. However, pediatricians have a racket where they will not accept a new child (unless they moved to the area) unless they saw the child within a week of its birth. Thus, when you get kicked out, you are out. You can't see a pediatrician anymore unless you drive 80 miles to sketchy 90's new-age pediatrician in a dingy strip mall, and you can't get any more vaccines unless you go on the correct afternoon of the second week of the month to a government clinic in the part of town with litter and shootings. This has pushed several people I know into not getting further vaccinations when they were getting 95%. Maybe it's just our area, and the whole US isn't doesn’t have pediatric practices like this...

epmaybe 8y ago
I can't say I've actually heard this being a thing in my part of the country. However, you mentioned the following: > (unless they moved to the area) Why not just lie and say you just moved to this part of the city/town/state? The only downside is that they'll ask about previous records which could get you caught. And further, what would be a potential reason for refusing to take care of a patient if you didn't follow them from week 1? I honestly can't think of one besides continuity of care.
- burntwater 8y ago
  I'm guessing it's a malpractice concern. All kinds of things can happen in the first week that aren't visible until a few years later. Who's to blame? The pediatrician who has been taking care of the child for 99% of their life... except for the first critical week...
  - epmaybe 8y ago
    Not sure I understand. If you're even less likely to be at blame since you weren't even there for those "critical" days, I would imagine there'd be less liability.