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CRISPR and the coming/heralded genetic revolution are BIG deals. Right up there with the Internet, the Bomb, and Fire. Our world is going to be very different d

CRISPR and the coming/heralded genetic revolution are BIG deals. Right up there with the Internet, the Bomb, and Fire. Our world is going to be very different due to this revolution. Events like these immediately prompt even the most uninterested person to have deep philosophical conversations; it's that simple and yet grand. This stuff is important, yo. That said, this revolution is a bit different, as it's not just the economics, the social structure, the food, or the power source that is being changed, it's your kids. Placental mammals are, generally, very protective of their young and we spend a LOT of time and food in raising them. Things like the genetic revolution are going to vastly disrupt that relationship, one that is ~65 million years old. Yes, today we have seen the first step in that timeline and it's not here yet. But all of us know that this power, for the perceived benefit of our progeny, is like an apple is to Adam; we have to eat it. But there's the rub. We're doing this because we'll want our kids to be better off [0]. But then they will not be your kids. At first, they will mostly be your kids, minus some small percents here and there. But as the generations pass (10, likely less?) the relationship between mother and child will become looser and less obvious. The child won't resemble you, won't behave like you, and sooner than you'd think, won't think of you as a parent. Here's the other thing, they will be Übermensch too. Not at first, yes, and there will be a lot of 'issues' along the way, ones that very much may derail the whole train. But we all know that they will be here eventually (500 years? 200 years?). The kids will be smarter, faster, stronger, gritter, handsome, charming, witty, etc. You won't hate them or fear them, you will want to be them and be around them and have your kids be like them too. Why? It'll be proven to 95% +/- 0.27% probability (give or take) that the gene editing works, just like you'd think, endlessly reviewed and studied over and over. But then you get these Übermensch kids making their kids even more Übermenschy. And the problem from before comes screaming in. You're doing all this for your kids, that was the whole point, so that they'd be better off, more genetically blessed. But there is no end to that idea and this kid of revolution can really go exponential (provided there is no 'carrying capacity' to genetics that we've not yet discovered). Eventually, the kids get so far away from the parents that they aren't your kids anymore. The whole reason evaporates into this kinda genetic arms race thingy. Yeah, things will go on for another generation or two past that, but not much more. We really need to examine WHY we all just know we are all going to get into this genetic arms race. We really need to know how these kids of things end; where are the exit ramps and the what do they look like? We all want the best for our kids, but now we are facing the question of: how do you define your child? [0] CRISPR may be able to edit genes in situ, yes, but I am focusing on germline editing and assuming that once fertilized, you're pretty much locked into a set of genes and developmental constraints.

candiodari 8y ago
This all sounds great but you're somehow forgetting that there are somewhere around 100.000.000 million humans alive today with genes defective to the point that they will kill their owners/hosts/whatever you want to call them. Just in kids, there's going to be something like 1 million kids currently alive that don't have a beating heart. Babies don't actually need their heart to be beating, diffusion will provide plenty of oxygen to their organs and brains. They may not have a heart at all (that's rare though, more likely it has a hole big enough to disrupt things enough that it won't keep beating, although even a needle sized hole will kill them if it doesn't close). These kids will, inevitably, grow. And their growth will kill them. The strongest among them will live something like 2 years. 50 times as many kids will have a degenerative disease. This may go from Leukemia to other blood issues right to ALS or MSC or CF. They will generally start dieing off at 6-8 years and some will grow to 25 or so. But they will die. And just in case you think 25 is nice, MSC/CF kids will feel like they're drowning constantly, 24/7, starting at ages 5-8. ALS is even worse. And yes, I get it, stephen hawking grew to 76. But he is an incredible exception and that was only possible with constant, 24/7/365 nurse attention. It is not generally possible. Even for people who get that 24/7/365 attention he grew to literally double the age of the next patient. And let's just not talk about people with brain misgrowths or epilepsy. Let's just not talk about how horrible that is. Half of them will never have the intelligence of a 3 year old, but they're still mostly in constant pain. Another roughly-same-size batch will have a serious defect in their bodies that isn't readily apparent. They will suddenly fall ill, and go from happily going to school to dead in 2 months following at essentially a random time. Not because of a disease or condition, but because their bodies really, really can't deal with things that are overwhelmingly part of our environment, going from UV light to pressure differences, to water, some insects, ... That's the damage our own genes put humanity through. In total somewhere between 2% and 5% (depends on your ethnicity) of people have a serious genetic defect (something that will strongly affect them until the day they die). About 1% will die from it, mostly while very young. Clearly, despite the potential for abuse (although some of your examples ... are they even abuse ? Mostly not from the only perspective that matters, that of the kids), there is a massive potential for improvement of the human condition as well.
- Balgair 8y ago

candiodari 8y ago

This all sounds great but you're somehow forgetting that there are somewhere around 100.000.000 million humans alive today with genes defective to the point that they will kill their owners/hosts/whatever you want to call them. Just in kids, there's going to be something like 1 million kids currently alive that don't have a beating heart. Babies don't actually need their heart to be beating, diffusion will provide plenty of oxygen to their organs and brains. They may not have a heart at all (that's rare though, more likely it has a hole big enough to disrupt things enough that it won't keep beating, although even a needle sized hole will kill them if it doesn't close). These kids will, inevitably, grow. And their growth will kill them. The strongest among them will live something like 2 years. 50 times as many kids will have a degenerative disease. This may go from Leukemia to other blood issues right to ALS or MSC or CF. They will generally start dieing off at 6-8 years and some will grow to 25 or so. But they will die. And just in case you think 25 is nice, MSC/CF kids will feel like they're drowning constantly, 24/7, starting at ages 5-8. ALS is even worse. And yes, I get it, stephen hawking grew to 76. But he is an incredible exception and that was only possible with constant, 24/7/365 nurse attention. It is not generally possible. Even for people who get that 24/7/365 attention he grew to literally double the age of the next patient. And let's just not talk about people with brain misgrowths or epilepsy. Let's just not talk about how horrible that is. Half of them will never have the intelligence of a 3 year old, but they're still mostly in constant pain. Another roughly-same-size batch will have a serious defect in their bodies that isn't readily apparent. They will suddenly fall ill, and go from happily going to school to dead in 2 months following at essentially a random time. Not because of a disease or condition, but because their bodies really, really can't deal with things that are overwhelmingly part of our environment, going from UV light to pressure differences, to water, some insects, ... That's the damage our own genes put humanity through. In total somewhere between 2% and 5% (depends on your ethnicity) of people have a serious genetic defect (something that will strongly affect them until the day they die). About 1% will die from it, mostly while very young. Clearly, despite the potential for abuse (although some of your examples ... are they even abuse ? Mostly not from the only perspective that matters, that of the kids), there is a massive potential for improvement of the human condition as well.

Balgair 8y ago