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>what if the “China Dream” is to replace us, just as America replaced the British Empire, without firing a shot?... Devil's Advocate I know, but what would be

>what if the “China Dream” is to replace us, just as America replaced the British Empire, without firing a shot?... Devil's Advocate I know, but what would be so bad about this? Our position, considering the world is now multi-polar, is really more of a predicament than a privilege. Why would we fight them replacing us? (Or rather, I suppose game theoretically it would be best to make a show of fighting it, and pretend to regret losing it. A la Huck Finn and whitewashing fences.) I mean, my concern is that they don't WANT to replace us. Which, to my mind, is worse for us.

EGreg 8y ago
I was also wondering, what is so bad about being the consumer nation, when our currency is in great demand around the world? In some weird way, the US has made the dollar itself a sought-after commodity, that is super easy to generate and sell to the rest of the world. An amazing deal, really.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  Yeah. That's why I'm trying to figure out why would even fight China trying to replace us? Surely the bigger issue would be if they only wished to sit back and make money for China without helping anyone else do anything?
  - EGreg 8y ago
    a bit tongue in cheek... It’s a bit like men being upset that feminism has led to women doing more work building careers and earning more money. Male lions sit around and have intercourse while the lionesses hunt. Maybe that is the future for humans too? I don’t actually believe this, I think both sexes should scale down their devotion to the corporate world and focus instead on their families and other pursuits with a UBI. Robots will pick up the slack eventually.
    - bilbo0s 8y ago
      I know it's off topic, but I agree with this as well. Robots really are the only viable way forward. The idea that we can keep increasing production, but somehow force companies to continue to hire all kinds of employees at wages that support middle class lifestyles is fanciful in the extreme. I'm not sure why politicians keep putting that idea forward as viable? It's directly contradictory to the fundamentals of economics.
- krapp 8y ago
  >I was also wondering, what is so bad about being the consumer nation, when our currency is in great demand around the world? The reason the dollar is in great demand is that it's backed up by American political and financial clout and force projection capabilities. If that ceases to be the case then demand for US currency collapses.
- prklmn 8y ago
  That's the present. What about the future? The USD can't be the world's reserve currency forever. What happen's when demand for oil is 50% of what it is now? What happens if oil starts to be traded in terms of some other currencies? What happens if the numerous countries whose currencies are pegged to the dollar decide to peg them to the yuan instead?
  - EGreg 8y ago
    That can be said about any export. What if other countries don’t want it anymore? Well then you have to diversify. Looj at Russia or Venezuela and how oil prices affected them. That’s their “dollars”. But if the USA is able to keep doing machinations around the world so that the dollar is demand for 200 years, eg by just making it the most stable currency, then their dollars and treasuries will literally be the thing that they trade for everything else. Like what if a bank goes insolvent... ok but what if it doesn’t, then everyone wants to use its money and credit. The USA also lobbies for strong IP protections and international treaties because that’s another one of its exports. Manufacturing and raw materials are actually less likely to remain a comparative advtantage than this artificially enforced stuff.
- blihp 8y ago
  The problem is, as a debtor nation our currency is only good as long as we can make our debt payments. If we don't actually produce much of value, that won't be for much longer. We (the U.S.) are currently running an experiment to see how much we can run up our debt while simultaneously becoming more dependent on the rest of the world for just about everything and wondering what's the worst that could possibly happen? Sadly, this experiment has already been run repeatedly throughout history and it doesn't end well.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > If we don't actually produce much of value, that won't be for much longer. But, we do produce a lot of value; we may be more specialized in intangible goods and services, but as long as those are marketable, we're fine. > Sadly, this experiment has already been run repeatedly throughout history and it doesn't end well. Leaving aside disagreement over whether the US is even in he scenario you propose, when has it ever ended badly for a country whose debt was denominated in its own fiat currency, rather than a commodity currency or foreign fiat?
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
What's so bad for us? You could argue that. If we stopped trying to run the world, it would be a lot less expensive (in terms of both money and lives). That might not be so bad. What's so bad for the world? Depends on how China tries to run it. But looking at the Uighurs, I'm kind of concerned that they won't run the world all that well for the rest of the world...
scoot_718 8y ago
Because their ideals are to control everything and disappear dissidents. I don't want that to occur globally thanks.

EGreg 8y ago

I was also wondering, what is so bad about being the consumer nation, when our currency is in great demand around the world? In some weird way, the US has made the dollar itself a sought-after commodity, that is super easy to generate and sell to the rest of the world. An amazing deal, really.

bilbo0s 8y ago
Yeah. That's why I'm trying to figure out why would even fight China trying to replace us? Surely the bigger issue would be if they only wished to sit back and make money for China without helping anyone else do anything?
- EGreg 8y ago
  a bit tongue in cheek... It’s a bit like men being upset that feminism has led to women doing more work building careers and earning more money. Male lions sit around and have intercourse while the lionesses hunt. Maybe that is the future for humans too? I don’t actually believe this, I think both sexes should scale down their devotion to the corporate world and focus instead on their families and other pursuits with a UBI. Robots will pick up the slack eventually.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    I know it's off topic, but I agree with this as well. Robots really are the only viable way forward. The idea that we can keep increasing production, but somehow force companies to continue to hire all kinds of employees at wages that support middle class lifestyles is fanciful in the extreme. I'm not sure why politicians keep putting that idea forward as viable? It's directly contradictory to the fundamentals of economics.
krapp 8y ago
>I was also wondering, what is so bad about being the consumer nation, when our currency is in great demand around the world? The reason the dollar is in great demand is that it's backed up by American political and financial clout and force projection capabilities. If that ceases to be the case then demand for US currency collapses.
prklmn 8y ago
That's the present. What about the future? The USD can't be the world's reserve currency forever. What happen's when demand for oil is 50% of what it is now? What happens if oil starts to be traded in terms of some other currencies? What happens if the numerous countries whose currencies are pegged to the dollar decide to peg them to the yuan instead?
- EGreg 8y ago
  That can be said about any export. What if other countries don’t want it anymore? Well then you have to diversify. Looj at Russia or Venezuela and how oil prices affected them. That’s their “dollars”. But if the USA is able to keep doing machinations around the world so that the dollar is demand for 200 years, eg by just making it the most stable currency, then their dollars and treasuries will literally be the thing that they trade for everything else. Like what if a bank goes insolvent... ok but what if it doesn’t, then everyone wants to use its money and credit. The USA also lobbies for strong IP protections and international treaties because that’s another one of its exports. Manufacturing and raw materials are actually less likely to remain a comparative advtantage than this artificially enforced stuff.
blihp 8y ago
The problem is, as a debtor nation our currency is only good as long as we can make our debt payments. If we don't actually produce much of value, that won't be for much longer. We (the U.S.) are currently running an experiment to see how much we can run up our debt while simultaneously becoming more dependent on the rest of the world for just about everything and wondering what's the worst that could possibly happen? Sadly, this experiment has already been run repeatedly throughout history and it doesn't end well.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > If we don't actually produce much of value, that won't be for much longer. But, we do produce a lot of value; we may be more specialized in intangible goods and services, but as long as those are marketable, we're fine. > Sadly, this experiment has already been run repeatedly throughout history and it doesn't end well. Leaving aside disagreement over whether the US is even in he scenario you propose, when has it ever ended badly for a country whose debt was denominated in its own fiat currency, rather than a commodity currency or foreign fiat?

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

What's so bad for us? You could argue that. If we stopped trying to run the world, it would be a lot less expensive (in terms of both money and lives). That might not be so bad. What's so bad for the world? Depends on how China tries to run it. But looking at the Uighurs, I'm kind of concerned that they won't run the world all that well for the rest of the world...

scoot_718 8y ago

Because their ideals are to control everything and disappear dissidents. I don't want that to occur globally thanks.