3 ms·

My bank locked me out of my account because they didn't approve of the way I was using it (crypto whitdrawal). All fully legal, from an exchange account I hold

by yholio 8y ago

My bank locked me out of my account because they didn't approve of the way I was using it (crypto whitdrawal). All fully legal, from an exchange account I hold in my name. They now give me the runarround asking me to prove with paper documents that I own the money (interesting reversal to physical interaction). No calls, no case person I can talk to, just an impersonal postage address, and if I contact the branch all I get is 'you need to send the documents'. I did, more than two weeks ago, I dropped them in this very branch. Sorry, we can't help you because "an investigation is ongoing". So I am guilty and without money until proven otherwise. Bottom line, cashless without a citizen right to unreversible banking is a form of bondage. It creates a paralel, private justice system, where you have no rights and your are judged by the value you have as a customer of the bank. A small customer is worthless and rightless.

cesarb 8y ago
> It creates a paralel, private justice system Can't you just bring the traditional justice system back into it, for instance, by suing them in small claims court demanding the release of your money? The judiciary supersedes whatever internal mechanisms the bank has; if the court tells the bank to give back your money corrected for inflation plus moral damages, they have no choice but to comply.
- notyourday 8y ago
  Small claims courts have very low limits. So he would need to sue in a federal court ( unless it is a state chartered bank ), which takes time and costs a lot of money. This is why one should have multiple bank accounts spread all over jurisdictions as well as keep some cash and credit lines ( also spread among different banks )
- yholio 8y ago
  The point is, I shouldn't have to do that; if access to banking is necessary for survival then the burden should be on the bank to get a court order before they have the right to freeze an account. If I sue the bank, it's an absolute guarantee I will be locked out of the account for a few months to a year until the case is settled. And it will be a civil claim against a commercial entity, the burden of proof is on me, I don't have access to a free lawyer and so on. The parallel justice system has already scored a massive victory against me from day one by stripping me of most civil rights. That's fine and dandy in a world where banking is optional and banks are businesses like any other, but in a cashless world being locked out of banking is a sentence to homelessness or death. How many days of rent delay will your landlord accept until he evicts you? How many days can you live on the streets before you are being fired from your job? What is the average life expectancy of a homeless person with no income and how often do they win in court against major financial institutions?
  - candiodari 8y ago
    > The point is, I shouldn't have to do that; Don't worry about it. You can't. https://tax.findlaw.com/tax-problems-audits/ten-things-to-remember-when-you-owe-the-irs.html https://tax.findlaw.com/tax-problems-audits/ten-things-to-re... Things that can be done to you without any (beforehand) judicial oversight , by the IRS. Or, for that matter, can legally happen without so much as warning to you. File a tax lien against you; Levy your bank account; Garnish your wages; Close down your business; Seize and sell your home; Damage employment and business relationships; Assess you personally for corporate employment taxes; Put you in a monthly installment payment arrangement that is too high; Contact your banker, neighbors, friends and business relationships concerning your tax liabilities; Go after third party transferees of your assets. Note that, at all times, you should consider that you might need to hire, and retain for ~a year, an accountant and a lawyer, plus add the same amount in reserve for court fees and the like. We are effectively proposing adding "taking every last dollar out of your, your family and kids and anyone you did business with wallet directly". The government is not very reasonable when it feels it is owed money.
jbob2000 8y ago
> My bank locked me out of my account because they didn't approve of the way I was using it (crypto whitdrawal). How much did you withdraw? You may have hit an anti-money laundering trigger. Nobody cares if you withdraw small sums of money, but anything over $10k usually sends alarm bells ringing.

by yholio 8y ago

cesarb 8y ago

> It creates a paralel, private justice system Can't you just bring the traditional justice system back into it, for instance, by suing them in small claims court demanding the release of your money? The judiciary supersedes whatever internal mechanisms the bank has; if the court tells the bank to give back your money corrected for inflation plus moral damages, they have no choice but to comply.

notyourday 8y ago
Small claims courts have very low limits. So he would need to sue in a federal court ( unless it is a state chartered bank ), which takes time and costs a lot of money. This is why one should have multiple bank accounts spread all over jurisdictions as well as keep some cash and credit lines ( also spread among different banks )
yholio 8y ago
The point is, I shouldn't have to do that; if access to banking is necessary for survival then the burden should be on the bank to get a court order before they have the right to freeze an account. If I sue the bank, it's an absolute guarantee I will be locked out of the account for a few months to a year until the case is settled. And it will be a civil claim against a commercial entity, the burden of proof is on me, I don't have access to a free lawyer and so on. The parallel justice system has already scored a massive victory against me from day one by stripping me of most civil rights. That's fine and dandy in a world where banking is optional and banks are businesses like any other, but in a cashless world being locked out of banking is a sentence to homelessness or death. How many days of rent delay will your landlord accept until he evicts you? How many days can you live on the streets before you are being fired from your job? What is the average life expectancy of a homeless person with no income and how often do they win in court against major financial institutions?
- candiodari 8y ago
  > The point is, I shouldn't have to do that; Don't worry about it. You can't. https://tax.findlaw.com/tax-problems-audits/ten-things-to-remember-when-you-owe-the-irs.html https://tax.findlaw.com/tax-problems-audits/ten-things-to-re... Things that can be done to you without any (beforehand) judicial oversight , by the IRS. Or, for that matter, can legally happen without so much as warning to you. File a tax lien against you; Levy your bank account; Garnish your wages; Close down your business; Seize and sell your home; Damage employment and business relationships; Assess you personally for corporate employment taxes; Put you in a monthly installment payment arrangement that is too high; Contact your banker, neighbors, friends and business relationships concerning your tax liabilities; Go after third party transferees of your assets. Note that, at all times, you should consider that you might need to hire, and retain for ~a year, an accountant and a lawyer, plus add the same amount in reserve for court fees and the like. We are effectively proposing adding "taking every last dollar out of your, your family and kids and anyone you did business with wallet directly". The government is not very reasonable when it feels it is owed money.

jbob2000 8y ago

> My bank locked me out of my account because they didn't approve of the way I was using it (crypto whitdrawal). How much did you withdraw? You may have hit an anti-money laundering trigger. Nobody cares if you withdraw small sums of money, but anything over $10k usually sends alarm bells ringing.