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I wouldn't be so sure. There are a ton of people who get taken seriously who really, really don't like the "consciousness is what the brain does" consensus of

I wouldn't be so sure. There are a ton of people who get taken seriously who really, really don't like the "consciousness is what the brain does" consensus of modern neuroscience, and they say a lot of stupid things trying to come up with an alternative.

whatshisface 8y ago
That's not a concensus of modern neroscience, that's a philosophical consensus that perhaps neuroscientists have. Consciousness is not eligible for science because it can't be observed. For example you might think someone under deep anethesia is not conscious, but how do you know that they aren't completely conscious while not experiencing anything, doing anything or forming memories?
- goldenkey 8y ago
  You can't observe consciousness in even living beings. Consciousness can't actually be verified for anyone but yourself. And that is actually a point of contention. Some people believe that their consciousness is an illusion too...
ghthor 8y ago
It's less of consensus, more of an IOU. Materialist science just says, we can't explain it now, but we will explain it in the future. Materialist biology is saying the same about the forms of plants being caused by the DNA, we can't explain it now but we will in the future. There are some scientists that aren't materialists, Rupert Sheldrake, that dont expect materialistic science to be able to explain consciousness or why life has complex forms.
- saalweachter 8y ago
  Exactly how consciousness arises from the brain is still a work in progress, sure. But that's just the classic moving goalpost we see any time someone doesn't like what's objectively pretty solid evidence. The overwhelming evidence against any form of dualism -- either the classical Decartes-style or the modern quantum-magic style -- and in favor of consciousness being what the brain does is how damned easy it is to produce altered states of consciousness through physical manipulations of the brain. Psychotropics, anesthetics, TMS, direct electrical stimulation of the brain, and the removal of brain tissue due to accident or as treatment for an underlying condition all paint a pretty solid picture that you can alter the mind, the subjective experience of being, by altering the brain. Any alternate hypothesis that consciousness doesn't reside in the electrochemical behavior of neurons faces an uphill battle; you're demonstrating the identity of the brain and consciousness every time you go out drinking.

whatshisface 8y ago

That's not a concensus of modern neroscience, that's a philosophical consensus that perhaps neuroscientists have. Consciousness is not eligible for science because it can't be observed. For example you might think someone under deep anethesia is not conscious, but how do you know that they aren't completely conscious while not experiencing anything, doing anything or forming memories?

goldenkey 8y ago
You can't observe consciousness in even living beings. Consciousness can't actually be verified for anyone but yourself. And that is actually a point of contention. Some people believe that their consciousness is an illusion too...

ghthor 8y ago

It's less of consensus, more of an IOU. Materialist science just says, we can't explain it now, but we will explain it in the future. Materialist biology is saying the same about the forms of plants being caused by the DNA, we can't explain it now but we will in the future. There are some scientists that aren't materialists, Rupert Sheldrake, that dont expect materialistic science to be able to explain consciousness or why life has complex forms.

saalweachter 8y ago
Exactly how consciousness arises from the brain is still a work in progress, sure. But that's just the classic moving goalpost we see any time someone doesn't like what's objectively pretty solid evidence. The overwhelming evidence against any form of dualism -- either the classical Decartes-style or the modern quantum-magic style -- and in favor of consciousness being what the brain does is how damned easy it is to produce altered states of consciousness through physical manipulations of the brain. Psychotropics, anesthetics, TMS, direct electrical stimulation of the brain, and the removal of brain tissue due to accident or as treatment for an underlying condition all paint a pretty solid picture that you can alter the mind, the subjective experience of being, by altering the brain. Any alternate hypothesis that consciousness doesn't reside in the electrochemical behavior of neurons faces an uphill battle; you're demonstrating the identity of the brain and consciousness every time you go out drinking.