3 ms·

If you are anti-Marxist, and not anti-Semite why do you feel justified to point out the ethnicity then? You never hear people saying "I'm anti-Stalinist-Georgia

by varjag 8y ago

If you are anti-Marxist, and not anti-Semite why do you feel justified to point out the ethnicity then? You never hear people saying "I'm anti-Stalinist-Georgian", "I'm anti-Chinese-Maoist", yet it's somehow benign with Jews? If you find the ideology abhorrent, why you focus on a particular ethnicity? It is almost as if you believe there is something special about Jews and Marxism than, say Russians and Marxism?

patrickg_zill 8y ago
First Soviet Politburo was between 80 and 85% Jewish. Jewish population was no more than 4% in Russia at the time. Commissars (the political office) and Cheka officials had similar numbers in terms of representation. Underlying reason included the suspicion that anyone Orthodox was tainted by secret sympathy for the Tsar or the Orthodox church. Jews were therefore seen as trustworthy, having no alliance or sympathy for the Tsar, or for the Orthodox beliefs.
- matt4077 8y ago
  This is an anti-semitic rewriting of history. The first Politburo was: Lenin (his mother's father was jewish. Judaism is transmitted maternally, so neither of Lenin's parents were jewish, and neither was he) Trotsky: jewish Stalin: Not jewish. Launched Anti-semitic campaign around '50 Lev Kamelev: Jewish father, orthodox mother -> not jewish (see above) Nikolay Krestinsky Not jewish So that's 1/5, or 20%, and you're an anti-semitic troll with no interest in the facts. You are also ignoring the part where the only Jew in the Politbro was executed rather early, while a member with absolutely no connection to Judaism, namely Stalin, appears to have had a rather, let’s say, “outsized” influence on the later failings of the system you want to nstrumentalize in your anti-Semitic insinuations. Not to mention that this summation of individual sins and good deeds in an effort to paint their associated groups is the very definition of prejudice. In fact, I now realize I should probably never have bought into that premise? (also: If you start arguing Lenin's judaism based on his heredity, I will invariably have to violate Godwin's law)
  - patrickg_zill 8y ago
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-... I consider Putin's comments at the opening of the Jewish Museum in Moscow as a valid source... Hard to believe that he would be making a very inaccurate statement at such a time or place. You owe me an apology.
  - pmoriarty 8y ago
    "Judaism is transmitted maternally, so neither of Lenin's parents were jewish, and neither was he" Wait, Judaism is transmitted? Like a disease?
    - matt4077 8y ago
      Sorry, non-native speaker. What’s better? “Inherited”? Edit: “passed down” is most common, but “transmitted” isn’t totally unheard of. Transmission also touches many concepts other than diseases, such as messages, traditions, DNA, Torrents, or torque. In this light, your interpretations seems somewhat bad-faithy and I retract that “sorry”.
- connorelsea 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure this isn't true but I'm curious, got a source? Afaik they were somewhat overrepresented but never a majority and only about 5% of party members were Jewish although percentages in leadership were slightly higher at around 15% https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/66ecq3/were_all_or_most_well_known_communist_leaders_in/dgisthq/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/66ecq3/were_...
  - patrickg_zill 8y ago
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-...
    - connorelsea 8y ago
      That is the only source I could find as well but I also found others saying it was false and that Putin was lying and misguiding
      - patrickg_zill 8y ago
        So the leader of a G8 country speaks to a room full of rabbis, and the news article is published in a Jewish newspaper, and there's no rebuttal or other commentary in the article ... But some guy somewhere on the internet says it's not true. Okay.
        pmoriarty 8y ago
        Is it possible for a leader of a G8 country to lie to room full of rabbis? What cynical times we live in.
        patrickg_zill 8y ago
        It certainly is possible. However it is unlikely that at least one person wouldn't correct the record after the fact, or make sure that the article would have an opposing view mentioned.

by varjag 8y ago

patrickg_zill 8y ago

First Soviet Politburo was between 80 and 85% Jewish. Jewish population was no more than 4% in Russia at the time. Commissars (the political office) and Cheka officials had similar numbers in terms of representation. Underlying reason included the suspicion that anyone Orthodox was tainted by secret sympathy for the Tsar or the Orthodox church. Jews were therefore seen as trustworthy, having no alliance or sympathy for the Tsar, or for the Orthodox beliefs.

matt4077 8y ago
This is an anti-semitic rewriting of history. The first Politburo was: Lenin (his mother's father was jewish. Judaism is transmitted maternally, so neither of Lenin's parents were jewish, and neither was he) Trotsky: jewish Stalin: Not jewish. Launched Anti-semitic campaign around '50 Lev Kamelev: Jewish father, orthodox mother -> not jewish (see above) Nikolay Krestinsky Not jewish So that's 1/5, or 20%, and you're an anti-semitic troll with no interest in the facts. You are also ignoring the part where the only Jew in the Politbro was executed rather early, while a member with absolutely no connection to Judaism, namely Stalin, appears to have had a rather, let’s say, “outsized” influence on the later failings of the system you want to nstrumentalize in your anti-Semitic insinuations. Not to mention that this summation of individual sins and good deeds in an effort to paint their associated groups is the very definition of prejudice. In fact, I now realize I should probably never have bought into that premise? (also: If you start arguing Lenin's judaism based on his heredity, I will invariably have to violate Godwin's law)
- patrickg_zill 8y ago
  https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-... I consider Putin's comments at the opening of the Jewish Museum in Moscow as a valid source... Hard to believe that he would be making a very inaccurate statement at such a time or place. You owe me an apology.
- pmoriarty 8y ago
  "Judaism is transmitted maternally, so neither of Lenin's parents were jewish, and neither was he" Wait, Judaism is transmitted? Like a disease?
  - matt4077 8y ago
    Sorry, non-native speaker. What’s better? “Inherited”? Edit: “passed down” is most common, but “transmitted” isn’t totally unheard of. Transmission also touches many concepts other than diseases, such as messages, traditions, DNA, Torrents, or torque. In this light, your interpretations seems somewhat bad-faithy and I retract that “sorry”.
connorelsea 8y ago
I'm pretty sure this isn't true but I'm curious, got a source? Afaik they were somewhat overrepresented but never a majority and only about 5% of party members were Jewish although percentages in leadership were slightly higher at around 15% https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/66ecq3/were_all_or_most_well_known_communist_leaders_in/dgisthq/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/66ecq3/were_...
- patrickg_zill 8y ago
  https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-...
  - connorelsea 8y ago
    That is the only source I could find as well but I also found others saying it was false and that Putin was lying and misguiding
    - patrickg_zill 8y ago
      So the leader of a G8 country speaks to a room full of rabbis, and the news article is published in a Jewish newspaper, and there's no rebuttal or other commentary in the article ... But some guy somewhere on the internet says it's not true. Okay.
      - pmoriarty 8y ago
        Is it possible for a leader of a G8 country to lie to room full of rabbis? What cynical times we live in.
        patrickg_zill 8y ago
        It certainly is possible. However it is unlikely that at least one person wouldn't correct the record after the fact, or make sure that the article would have an opposing view mentioned.