5 ms·

Crazier still is that kratom is getting lined up to be scheduled as well, when it is a proven safe tool for weaning people off of opiates.

refurb 8y ago
It will be interesting to see if they finally make kratom schedule 1. When they tried it last time, the public outcry was enough to stop it. And I agree it would be awful if they did. Kratom is certainly not without addiction risk, but if you believe in harm reduction, it’s far better to have people taking it versus prescription opioids or heroin.
- pstuart 8y ago
  Apparently the current FDA head has financial interests in doing the wrong thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/7et2l8/fda_loyalty_to_big_pharma_exposed/ https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/7et2l8/fda_loyalty_... disclaimer: yes, it's a reddit post but it seems to capture the essence of the situation and I'm too lazy for other citations at the moment.
markdown 8y ago
Kratom is great as medicine to wean people off opiates. However, it absolutely shouldn't be used in a recreational setting as it currently is, served in kratom bars (though they like to use the name "Kava" in an attempt to fly under the radar). See /r/quittingkratom
- crshstsh 8y ago
  Why would they sell it as Kava when Kratom is more expensive? I am on day 5 of getting off of Kratom. This smy second time around, and the first was horrendous. A couple of months ago a doctor prescribed Gabapentin and I've literally experience only 5% of the side effects of withdrawal. All the intense symptoms disappeared and I glided through this week. I wonder why doctors prescribe Suboxone and Methadone, both highly addictive.
  - markdown 8y ago
    Kava actually costs more than kratom. But I never said people sell kava as kratom. Selling Kratom in bars is against the law. Instead they set up “kava” bars in which they sell kratom and kava.
- pstuart 8y ago
  Any arguments like this that don't also call for banning alcohol and tobacco are specious at best. Society has "agreed" that while those substances are dangerous, it is up to the individual to determine how they are consumed. So this then becomes an argument of "I don't like your vice and I'm going to decide whether or not you can partake".
  - DanBC 8y ago
    > Society has "agreed" that while those substances are dangerous, it is up to the individual to determine how they are consumed. Unless you're under a certan age, or driving a car, or piloting a plane the next day, or etc etc. And there is strong societal pressure against pregnant women drinking any alcohol at all despite there being no evidence that small amounts of alcohol are harmful during pregnancy.
    - pstuart 8y ago
      Ok. I'm over 21, not pregnant and not operating a vehicle under the influence. What's your point?
      - DanBC 8y ago
        My point is that society has not said you can do what you like with alcohol, and should not do so for opioids, and that the restrictions for opioids are going to be stronger than the restrictions for alcohol even if opioids become freely and legally available to all who need them.
  - markdown 8y ago
    True that I didn’t call for alcohol to be banned. Are you arguing that opioids should be served recreationally in bars? At some point we need to draw a line.
    - pstuart 8y ago
      I'm arguing against making drugs illegal to "protect" people. I use kratom both for pain management and at times to take the edge off. That would be "recreational" at that point. I don't want you to be my nanny. > Are you arguing that opioids should be served recreationally in bars Maybe, actually. When my brother died of a heroin overdose it was ultimately his mistake but the "market" failed him because there were no standards for purity or strength. Bear this in mind: heroin is illegal. My brother is dead. What protection was offered there? The cops laughed at another dead junkie. Do you drink alcohol? Are you fat? Do you ride a bike without a helmet? Smoke cigars? Do rock climbing? Ride motorcycles? Skydive? etc. etc. etc. If so, you must now stop. I'll let you know what you can there going forward, thank you very much. Are you aware of the history of drug prohibition in the fact that it had absolutely nothing to do with preventing self harm but was an excuse for using the laws for oppressing the underclass. I know you are arguing in good faith with good intentions but you are horribly, dangerously wrong.

refurb 8y ago

It will be interesting to see if they finally make kratom schedule 1. When they tried it last time, the public outcry was enough to stop it. And I agree it would be awful if they did. Kratom is certainly not without addiction risk, but if you believe in harm reduction, it’s far better to have people taking it versus prescription opioids or heroin.

pstuart 8y ago
Apparently the current FDA head has financial interests in doing the wrong thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/7et2l8/fda_loyalty_to_big_pharma_exposed/ https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/7et2l8/fda_loyalty_... disclaimer: yes, it's a reddit post but it seems to capture the essence of the situation and I'm too lazy for other citations at the moment.

markdown 8y ago

Kratom is great as medicine to wean people off opiates. However, it absolutely shouldn't be used in a recreational setting as it currently is, served in kratom bars (though they like to use the name "Kava" in an attempt to fly under the radar). See /r/quittingkratom

crshstsh 8y ago
Why would they sell it as Kava when Kratom is more expensive? I am on day 5 of getting off of Kratom. This smy second time around, and the first was horrendous. A couple of months ago a doctor prescribed Gabapentin and I've literally experience only 5% of the side effects of withdrawal. All the intense symptoms disappeared and I glided through this week. I wonder why doctors prescribe Suboxone and Methadone, both highly addictive.
- markdown 8y ago
  Kava actually costs more than kratom. But I never said people sell kava as kratom. Selling Kratom in bars is against the law. Instead they set up “kava” bars in which they sell kratom and kava.
pstuart 8y ago
Any arguments like this that don't also call for banning alcohol and tobacco are specious at best. Society has "agreed" that while those substances are dangerous, it is up to the individual to determine how they are consumed. So this then becomes an argument of "I don't like your vice and I'm going to decide whether or not you can partake".
- DanBC 8y ago
  > Society has "agreed" that while those substances are dangerous, it is up to the individual to determine how they are consumed. Unless you're under a certan age, or driving a car, or piloting a plane the next day, or etc etc. And there is strong societal pressure against pregnant women drinking any alcohol at all despite there being no evidence that small amounts of alcohol are harmful during pregnancy.
  - pstuart 8y ago
    Ok. I'm over 21, not pregnant and not operating a vehicle under the influence. What's your point?
    - DanBC 8y ago
      My point is that society has not said you can do what you like with alcohol, and should not do so for opioids, and that the restrictions for opioids are going to be stronger than the restrictions for alcohol even if opioids become freely and legally available to all who need them.
- markdown 8y ago
  True that I didn’t call for alcohol to be banned. Are you arguing that opioids should be served recreationally in bars? At some point we need to draw a line.
  - pstuart 8y ago
    I'm arguing against making drugs illegal to "protect" people. I use kratom both for pain management and at times to take the edge off. That would be "recreational" at that point. I don't want you to be my nanny. > Are you arguing that opioids should be served recreationally in bars Maybe, actually. When my brother died of a heroin overdose it was ultimately his mistake but the "market" failed him because there were no standards for purity or strength. Bear this in mind: heroin is illegal. My brother is dead. What protection was offered there? The cops laughed at another dead junkie. Do you drink alcohol? Are you fat? Do you ride a bike without a helmet? Smoke cigars? Do rock climbing? Ride motorcycles? Skydive? etc. etc. etc. If so, you must now stop. I'll let you know what you can there going forward, thank you very much. Are you aware of the history of drug prohibition in the fact that it had absolutely nothing to do with preventing self harm but was an excuse for using the laws for oppressing the underclass. I know you are arguing in good faith with good intentions but you are horribly, dangerously wrong.