10 ms·

Kind of makes me wonder if there are people that live without routines and rituals, and what causes the transition to and from between living with and without r

by jolmg 8y ago

Kind of makes me wonder if there are people that live without routines and rituals, and what causes the transition to and from between living with and without routines and rituals. Can anyone give their experience on the matter?

mark_edward 8y ago
People who live like that are almost always dysfunctional
thatoneuser 8y ago
I’m not anyone super important but this is how I’ve lived my life. Honestly it feels chaotic. My mind is always running via executive control. In some ways this, I believe, has provided me with a very unique worldview where anything seems possible - any path is within my grasp. I think it has led me to be more (forgive the possible arrogance, it’s not intended as such) intelligent than the average bear. I don’t let many facts into my mind without intense scrutiny and I tend to have a much more complete high level picture of how things work. In fact, I realized these traits early in life and believed they were something I should pursue to be more effective. Which in many ways has come true. However the down side is that you’re incompatible with most other people. I dread routine to the point where ive lost relationships and a sense of purpose in most work. Being a cog is extremely unpleasant and it’s more and more apparent to me that that’s where most success in the world comes from (think millions of workers vs a single ceo.) This article touched on all of that and I think I need to incorporate the routine and ritual more. Even if it’s so I can just get through the parts of life I currently struggle. Sorry if this is a bit rambling. I’m working now but wanted to share. If you have any questions or want to chat I’d be happy. Still not sure how hacker news replying and all works so my apologies if I miss you.
- seer 8y ago
  Maybe not as pronounced as in your case but I can definitly understand where you’re comming from. What worked for me was trying to understand some martial arts / eastern spirituality, which brought a lot of peace and stability to my mind. I remeber being tald about all the spiritual things that seem bonkers to a western educated mind, but with the idea that - all models are false, some models are useful, I just “tried” to imagine it working, and it actually did, the mind is an interresting thing. Now whenever I am presented with those ancient patterns of thought I don’t dismiss them outright as false, but think of them as a model that can influence your emotions, and act accordingly.
  - eksemplar 8y ago
    I always found it rather interesting how similar Buddhism is to Christian, and how different they are typically taught. The teaching of Jesus and Buddha are really giving you the exact same advice. Self-sacrifice, honesty, hard work and being decent while you accept all the shit life throws at you and let it pass, because it will, are the ways to live calmly and fully in between the eternal struggle chaos and order. I personally think the eastern approach was easier to comprehend than the western. Ying and yang are two dragons locked in eternal struggle, one is chaos one is order but within each dragon is a small piece of the other. Let too much of one dragon into your life and you will suffer, and since chaos lives within order (and vice versa) it’s also a fruitless struggle to chose one, because the other will always find a way to creep in. You’ll find the same essence in the bible and the moral struggle between good and evil and a God who never tells you what he wants, but to me, it was much less clear. Perhaps especially because 90% of religions scholars are assholes and in the west you don’t meet the eastern assholes but you do meet a lot of shitty priests.
    - bencollier49 8y ago
      Interesting comment. I think if you were to read one of the gospels you'd pretty quickly get instructions on what God wants: 1. Love God 2. Love other people as much as you love yourself. You'll find the second one in Buddhism, but not really the first. That makes rather a lot of difference, because it focuses someone on being grateful for the world, rather than attempting to ignore it.
      - mikekchar 8y ago
        I'm not a Buddhist, but I think you've got that completely backwards. For example, the 5 moral precepts in Buddhism are refrain from: harming living things, taking what is not given, sexual misconduct, lying or gossip, taking intoxicating substances eg drugs or drink. No mention of god anywhere. As far as I can tell, in many (most? all?) sects of Buddhism there is no god. Buddha is just the first fully enlightened being (and in many sects, it's achievable by anyone -- eventually). As there is no dogma in Buddhism, it's really difficult to casually learn what Buddhism is about. Usually people will throw a hundred books at you and say, "Well, that will get you started" (at least in my experience :-) ). However, I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick.
- thecupisblue 8y ago
  I completely understand you. Some people go to school, spend hours studying at home and in school, apply to a company, get a job, have a routine. I get out of bed and somehow snowball into a tornado that I kind of steer towards where I wanna go in life. Anyways, the main difference here is in how I think your (and mine!) brain works - we think in abstractions, get bored with details and implementations. We recognize patterns and priniciples, that's why there are things you "know" but have barely ever done in your life. That's why stuff is boring - you know or can assume it already because you recognize the patterns and principles behind it. It's just an implementation of an abstraction.
  - mockingbirdy 8y ago
    People with this personality type are very reflective and have profound thoughts, but they often lack execution. You'll be most successful in think tanks or if you lead teams where you give high-level directions (you will need a business partner that is convinced by your vision and who implements it). It's also good to know that the brain constantly creates simulations about different situations. It's very important to realize that these simulations are not always accurate because they use your current beliefs about yourself to infer the emotions you would feel in that situation. You should go into situations instead of just imaging them - it'll lead to a more accurate model of reality in your mind and you'll be pleasantly surprised how inaccurate some simulations were. Social stuff stops being boring then.
    - thecupisblue 8y ago
      That's exactly what I noticed! I always tried to make myself the "implementer" but now that I have friends that are "implementers" it's way easier to do stuff. And luckily this is the same thing that my employers noticed. > You should go into situations instead of just imaging them - it'll lead to a more accurate model of reality in your mind and you'll be pleasantly surprised how inaccurate some simulations were. Social stuff stops being boring then Thanks. I know that and I try to do it but sometimes I need to hear it anew. Are you the same type? And unrelated question, because I feel like you belong to the same tribe. Do you think that sketching, drawing, painting, coding, writing just offloading thoughts on the paper/digital paper? I noticed that I have a tendency to do all kinds of stuff that includes translating abstractions to a medium (for example, invoking feelings with poetry, explaining with metaphors or sketching out ideas)
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

by jolmg 8y ago

mark_edward 8y ago

People who live like that are almost always dysfunctional

thatoneuser 8y ago

I’m not anyone super important but this is how I’ve lived my life. Honestly it feels chaotic. My mind is always running via executive control. In some ways this, I believe, has provided me with a very unique worldview where anything seems possible - any path is within my grasp. I think it has led me to be more (forgive the possible arrogance, it’s not intended as such) intelligent than the average bear. I don’t let many facts into my mind without intense scrutiny and I tend to have a much more complete high level picture of how things work. In fact, I realized these traits early in life and believed they were something I should pursue to be more effective. Which in many ways has come true. However the down side is that you’re incompatible with most other people. I dread routine to the point where ive lost relationships and a sense of purpose in most work. Being a cog is extremely unpleasant and it’s more and more apparent to me that that’s where most success in the world comes from (think millions of workers vs a single ceo.) This article touched on all of that and I think I need to incorporate the routine and ritual more. Even if it’s so I can just get through the parts of life I currently struggle. Sorry if this is a bit rambling. I’m working now but wanted to share. If you have any questions or want to chat I’d be happy. Still not sure how hacker news replying and all works so my apologies if I miss you.

seer 8y ago
Maybe not as pronounced as in your case but I can definitly understand where you’re comming from. What worked for me was trying to understand some martial arts / eastern spirituality, which brought a lot of peace and stability to my mind. I remeber being tald about all the spiritual things that seem bonkers to a western educated mind, but with the idea that - all models are false, some models are useful, I just “tried” to imagine it working, and it actually did, the mind is an interresting thing. Now whenever I am presented with those ancient patterns of thought I don’t dismiss them outright as false, but think of them as a model that can influence your emotions, and act accordingly.
- eksemplar 8y ago
  I always found it rather interesting how similar Buddhism is to Christian, and how different they are typically taught. The teaching of Jesus and Buddha are really giving you the exact same advice. Self-sacrifice, honesty, hard work and being decent while you accept all the shit life throws at you and let it pass, because it will, are the ways to live calmly and fully in between the eternal struggle chaos and order. I personally think the eastern approach was easier to comprehend than the western. Ying and yang are two dragons locked in eternal struggle, one is chaos one is order but within each dragon is a small piece of the other. Let too much of one dragon into your life and you will suffer, and since chaos lives within order (and vice versa) it’s also a fruitless struggle to chose one, because the other will always find a way to creep in. You’ll find the same essence in the bible and the moral struggle between good and evil and a God who never tells you what he wants, but to me, it was much less clear. Perhaps especially because 90% of religions scholars are assholes and in the west you don’t meet the eastern assholes but you do meet a lot of shitty priests.
  - bencollier49 8y ago
    Interesting comment. I think if you were to read one of the gospels you'd pretty quickly get instructions on what God wants: 1. Love God 2. Love other people as much as you love yourself. You'll find the second one in Buddhism, but not really the first. That makes rather a lot of difference, because it focuses someone on being grateful for the world, rather than attempting to ignore it.
    - mikekchar 8y ago
      I'm not a Buddhist, but I think you've got that completely backwards. For example, the 5 moral precepts in Buddhism are refrain from: harming living things, taking what is not given, sexual misconduct, lying or gossip, taking intoxicating substances eg drugs or drink. No mention of god anywhere. As far as I can tell, in many (most? all?) sects of Buddhism there is no god. Buddha is just the first fully enlightened being (and in many sects, it's achievable by anyone -- eventually). As there is no dogma in Buddhism, it's really difficult to casually learn what Buddhism is about. Usually people will throw a hundred books at you and say, "Well, that will get you started" (at least in my experience :-) ). However, I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick.
thecupisblue 8y ago
I completely understand you. Some people go to school, spend hours studying at home and in school, apply to a company, get a job, have a routine. I get out of bed and somehow snowball into a tornado that I kind of steer towards where I wanna go in life. Anyways, the main difference here is in how I think your (and mine!) brain works - we think in abstractions, get bored with details and implementations. We recognize patterns and priniciples, that's why there are things you "know" but have barely ever done in your life. That's why stuff is boring - you know or can assume it already because you recognize the patterns and principles behind it. It's just an implementation of an abstraction.
- mockingbirdy 8y ago
  People with this personality type are very reflective and have profound thoughts, but they often lack execution. You'll be most successful in think tanks or if you lead teams where you give high-level directions (you will need a business partner that is convinced by your vision and who implements it). It's also good to know that the brain constantly creates simulations about different situations. It's very important to realize that these simulations are not always accurate because they use your current beliefs about yourself to infer the emotions you would feel in that situation. You should go into situations instead of just imaging them - it'll lead to a more accurate model of reality in your mind and you'll be pleasantly surprised how inaccurate some simulations were. Social stuff stops being boring then.
  - thecupisblue 8y ago
    That's exactly what I noticed! I always tried to make myself the "implementer" but now that I have friends that are "implementers" it's way easier to do stuff. And luckily this is the same thing that my employers noticed. > You should go into situations instead of just imaging them - it'll lead to a more accurate model of reality in your mind and you'll be pleasantly surprised how inaccurate some simulations were. Social stuff stops being boring then Thanks. I know that and I try to do it but sometimes I need to hear it anew. Are you the same type? And unrelated question, because I feel like you belong to the same tribe. Do you think that sketching, drawing, painting, coding, writing just offloading thoughts on the paper/digital paper? I noticed that I have a tendency to do all kinds of stuff that includes translating abstractions to a medium (for example, invoking feelings with poetry, explaining with metaphors or sketching out ideas)

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]