5 ms·

I suspect these 'misinformation campaigns' are completely ineffectual and the main effect we are seeing is factual information routing around mainstream media o

by Tycho 8y ago

I suspect these 'misinformation campaigns' are completely ineffectual and the main effect we are seeing is factual information routing around mainstream media outlets and successfully embarrassing subjects that the mainstream media would rather protect. For instance it was very embarrassing for the mainstream media and the democratic party that leaked emails showed them in collusion and undermining Bernie Sanders, but this was not misinformation. Likewise it was very embarrassing for the foreign policy establishment when their tools such as the oscar-winning White Helmets relief-workers were photographed arm-in-arm with rebel militants and shown staging videos, but I didn't see any of this exposed as 'misinformation.' I guess it was just 'the wrong information' to be reporting on. Revelations like this are much more powerful than silly memes from Twitter accounts with no real followers.

Hasknewbie 8y ago
>> Likewise it was very embarrassing for the foreign policy establishment when their tools such as the oscar-winning White Helmets relief-workers were photographed arm-in-arm with rebel militants and shown staging videos I looked this up and I found is this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-this-proof-white-helmets-staged-chemical-attack/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-this-proof-white-helmet... Wikipedia has a couple of incidents listed in the 'Controversies' section on White Helmets, that do not really show them as 'tools of the foreign policy establishment'. >> but I didn't see any of this exposed as 'misinformation.' Well there you go then.
- Tycho 8y ago
  The snopes page has them admitting in an official statement to making a fake video but, you see, that’s ok because they were intentionally making a fake video, it was an exercise, and they never meant for it to be distributed. Right. The Wikipedia article states that they were founded by a man who happens to be a former British military intelligence officer, that they were initially funded by the UK foreign office, that they received 30 million annually from western governments and NGOs, and that they now operate in other countries. Sounds a hell of a lot more like a foreign policy tool than a grass roots charity operation, to me at least. And lest we think this is just some pictures flying around on unverified Twitter accounts, here’s a BBC Panorama documentary featuring blatantly faked footage. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SvjTeuSKTW0&t=3m54s&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SvjTeuSKTW0&t=3m54s&feature=yo...
  - pas 8y ago
    > The snopes page has them admitting in an official statement to making a fake video but, That's false. The Syrian Civil Defense never said/admitted such thing. >>>> These images have been online since 2016, and show members of the White Helmets filming a “mannequin challenge” video. So have you seen that video? I haven't. I guess you haven't either. Let's watch it then, shall we? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgl271A6LgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgl271A6LgQ Now, why are you calling it "fake"? > NGOs, funding, etc. How does that make them a FP tool? I wanted to look into the BBC Panorama Saving Syria's Children thing, and haven't found anything conclusive and short. The BBC's reponse is the most relevant probably: https://bbcpanoramasavingsyriaschildren.wordpress.com/2014/01/18/bbc-response-to-first-letter-of-complaint-2-december-2013/ https://bbcpanoramasavingsyriaschildren.wordpress.com/2014/0... https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/50507/issue_288.pdf https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/50507/i... [BBC's case against RT UK, which of course run with the whole "scandal"] https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/05/02/assad-supporters-plan-put-media-trial-journalism-syria/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/05/02/assad-supporters-plan... It's still possible that the BBC and its crew is full of lies. But at least their lies are well in line with what Assad is doing nowadays - and what probably did in 2013 too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2X84JZINcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2X84JZINcI
    - Tycho 8y ago
      It’s a video featuring people pretending to rescue someone who is pretending to be injured. I call that fake. Why are they engaging in this sort of activity? The BBC are standing by their footage, but it looks mighty fake to me, I suppose it could be real though.
      - pas 8y ago
        They are doing homemade amateur performance art basically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannequin_Challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannequin_Challenge
akhilcacharya 8y ago
> For instance it was very embarrassing for the mainstream media and the democratic party that leaked emails showed them in collusion and undermining Bernie Sanders, but this was not misinformation. Except they didn’t, at all, and the people spreading this theory are spreading misinformation.
- geowwy 8y ago
  The leaked emails are pretty damning. I don't know how you can say there was no conspiracy against Sanders.
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    He lost fair and square for being out of the mainstream. There was no conspiracy.
- simonsarris 8y ago
  At all? Did we read the same emails? Even Donna Brazile, who was dismissed from CNN over her leaked email, thinks so.

by Tycho 8y ago

Hasknewbie 8y ago

>> Likewise it was very embarrassing for the foreign policy establishment when their tools such as the oscar-winning White Helmets relief-workers were photographed arm-in-arm with rebel militants and shown staging videos I looked this up and I found is this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-this-proof-white-helmets-staged-chemical-attack/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-this-proof-white-helmet... Wikipedia has a couple of incidents listed in the 'Controversies' section on White Helmets, that do not really show them as 'tools of the foreign policy establishment'. >> but I didn't see any of this exposed as 'misinformation.' Well there you go then.

Tycho 8y ago
The snopes page has them admitting in an official statement to making a fake video but, you see, that’s ok because they were intentionally making a fake video, it was an exercise, and they never meant for it to be distributed. Right. The Wikipedia article states that they were founded by a man who happens to be a former British military intelligence officer, that they were initially funded by the UK foreign office, that they received 30 million annually from western governments and NGOs, and that they now operate in other countries. Sounds a hell of a lot more like a foreign policy tool than a grass roots charity operation, to me at least. And lest we think this is just some pictures flying around on unverified Twitter accounts, here’s a BBC Panorama documentary featuring blatantly faked footage. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SvjTeuSKTW0&t=3m54s&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SvjTeuSKTW0&t=3m54s&feature=yo...
- pas 8y ago
  > The snopes page has them admitting in an official statement to making a fake video but, That's false. The Syrian Civil Defense never said/admitted such thing. >>>> These images have been online since 2016, and show members of the White Helmets filming a “mannequin challenge” video. So have you seen that video? I haven't. I guess you haven't either. Let's watch it then, shall we? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgl271A6LgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgl271A6LgQ Now, why are you calling it "fake"? > NGOs, funding, etc. How does that make them a FP tool? I wanted to look into the BBC Panorama Saving Syria's Children thing, and haven't found anything conclusive and short. The BBC's reponse is the most relevant probably: https://bbcpanoramasavingsyriaschildren.wordpress.com/2014/01/18/bbc-response-to-first-letter-of-complaint-2-december-2013/ https://bbcpanoramasavingsyriaschildren.wordpress.com/2014/0... https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/50507/issue_288.pdf https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/50507/i... [BBC's case against RT UK, which of course run with the whole "scandal"] https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/05/02/assad-supporters-plan-put-media-trial-journalism-syria/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/05/02/assad-supporters-plan... It's still possible that the BBC and its crew is full of lies. But at least their lies are well in line with what Assad is doing nowadays - and what probably did in 2013 too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2X84JZINcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2X84JZINcI
  - Tycho 8y ago
    It’s a video featuring people pretending to rescue someone who is pretending to be injured. I call that fake. Why are they engaging in this sort of activity? The BBC are standing by their footage, but it looks mighty fake to me, I suppose it could be real though.
    - pas 8y ago
      They are doing homemade amateur performance art basically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannequin_Challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannequin_Challenge

akhilcacharya 8y ago

> For instance it was very embarrassing for the mainstream media and the democratic party that leaked emails showed them in collusion and undermining Bernie Sanders, but this was not misinformation. Except they didn’t, at all, and the people spreading this theory are spreading misinformation.

geowwy 8y ago
The leaked emails are pretty damning. I don't know how you can say there was no conspiracy against Sanders.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  He lost fair and square for being out of the mainstream. There was no conspiracy.
simonsarris 8y ago
At all? Did we read the same emails? Even Donna Brazile, who was dismissed from CNN over her leaked email, thinks so.