5 ms·

> large amount of anti-FB fervor that is substanceless [citation needed] Cambridge Analytica? Soros? This clusterfuck? What was substanceless?

kodablah 8y ago
All the anti-FB opinion articles on and off big-media domains. There are a large amount. You can just browse https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=facebook https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=facebook if you'd like. Many lack substance.
- TwoNineA 8y ago
  You made the claim, not me. You claimed that a large amount of articles are substanceless and you produced no proof.
- InitialLastName 8y ago
  If you dig through that list to the articles that are actual journalism (as opposed to explicitly labeled opinion and commentary articles), the last 3 are: - "Facebook Used People’s Data to Favor Certain Partners and Punish Rivals, Documents Show" [0] - "A Hot Seat for Facebook, an Empty Chair for Zuckerberg and a Vow to Share Secret Files" [1] - "On Thanksgiving Eve, Facebook Acknowledges Details of Times Investigation" [2] All three strike me as substantive. Yes, the NYT opinion section is a bit fluffy, and yes, that strikes me as a problem in a world where folks are increasingly unable to distinguish between journalism and editorial, but at the end of the day commentary like that is what the "opinion" label is for. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/05/technology/facebook-documents-uk-parliament.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/05/technology/facebook-docum... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/technology/facebook-british-hearing-mark-zuckerberg-no-show.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/technology/facebook-briti... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/business/on-thanksgiving-eve-facebook-acknowledges-details-of-times-investigation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/business/on-thanksgiving-...
  - kodablah 8y ago
    Sure, if you add filters and dig you get substance. The initial contention was about the large amount of substanceless anti-FB content in the media in general, not specific types of content. That you have to dig is the issue, not what you get once you have done so.
    - creato 8y ago
      I think any issue of substance getting media attention will also generate a lot of fluff/opinion commentary on the few articles of substance. I don't think this wave of media attention on Facebook is different.
malvosenior 8y ago
While I'm no FB fan I actually don't think these stories are anywhere near as important as the non-stop media brigading would suggest. * Cambridge Analytica: A company accessed friends lists via an api and sold them to another company. Friends lists are pretty much public on every other service. Very low quality data. Happened years ago. Original company accessed the data legitimately via api. * Soros: Billionaire investor in FB starts publicly bad mouthing FB. FB hires team to find out why. Non-story. * This story (strategic use of data with various partners): Literally every company that sells data does this. Some shady user practices, yes, but nothing out of the ordinary. Altogether these are pretty minor things but the media coverage would have you think FB is causing the world economy to collapse. My theory is that this is happening for two reasons: 1. Old media business models continue to deteriorate. FB is the new gatekeeper so the old gatekeepers are attacking it. 2. Extreme left-wing political bias in major media companies is still looking for a scapegoat for the 2016 election results and trying to to stop platforms that can circumvent their narrative. Again, FB has a lot wrong with it, but to not view this as a coordinated attack from a handful of centralized mainstream media players is to miss the real story here.
- Jordrok 8y ago
  Brigading, brigading. I keep seeing that word tossed around whenever people are unhappy that something inconvenient for them starts getting more attention than they think it deserves. Personally, I'm happy that the media is finally starting to pay attention. Facebook has been doing shady, unethical, user-hostile stuff for a long time - since way before 2016. This has been building for a while now and I think the attention is entirely deserved. And I'm not even part of the Elite Secret Socialist George Soros-Funded Left-Wing Media Cabal.

kodablah 8y ago

All the anti-FB opinion articles on and off big-media domains. There are a large amount. You can just browse https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=facebook https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=facebook if you'd like. Many lack substance.

TwoNineA 8y ago
You made the claim, not me. You claimed that a large amount of articles are substanceless and you produced no proof.
InitialLastName 8y ago
If you dig through that list to the articles that are actual journalism (as opposed to explicitly labeled opinion and commentary articles), the last 3 are: - "Facebook Used People’s Data to Favor Certain Partners and Punish Rivals, Documents Show" [0] - "A Hot Seat for Facebook, an Empty Chair for Zuckerberg and a Vow to Share Secret Files" [1] - "On Thanksgiving Eve, Facebook Acknowledges Details of Times Investigation" [2] All three strike me as substantive. Yes, the NYT opinion section is a bit fluffy, and yes, that strikes me as a problem in a world where folks are increasingly unable to distinguish between journalism and editorial, but at the end of the day commentary like that is what the "opinion" label is for. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/05/technology/facebook-documents-uk-parliament.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/05/technology/facebook-docum... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/technology/facebook-british-hearing-mark-zuckerberg-no-show.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/technology/facebook-briti... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/business/on-thanksgiving-eve-facebook-acknowledges-details-of-times-investigation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/business/on-thanksgiving-...
- kodablah 8y ago
  Sure, if you add filters and dig you get substance. The initial contention was about the large amount of substanceless anti-FB content in the media in general, not specific types of content. That you have to dig is the issue, not what you get once you have done so.
  - creato 8y ago
    I think any issue of substance getting media attention will also generate a lot of fluff/opinion commentary on the few articles of substance. I don't think this wave of media attention on Facebook is different.

malvosenior 8y ago

While I'm no FB fan I actually don't think these stories are anywhere near as important as the non-stop media brigading would suggest. * Cambridge Analytica: A company accessed friends lists via an api and sold them to another company. Friends lists are pretty much public on every other service. Very low quality data. Happened years ago. Original company accessed the data legitimately via api. * Soros: Billionaire investor in FB starts publicly bad mouthing FB. FB hires team to find out why. Non-story. * This story (strategic use of data with various partners): Literally every company that sells data does this. Some shady user practices, yes, but nothing out of the ordinary. Altogether these are pretty minor things but the media coverage would have you think FB is causing the world economy to collapse. My theory is that this is happening for two reasons: 1. Old media business models continue to deteriorate. FB is the new gatekeeper so the old gatekeepers are attacking it. 2. Extreme left-wing political bias in major media companies is still looking for a scapegoat for the 2016 election results and trying to to stop platforms that can circumvent their narrative. Again, FB has a lot wrong with it, but to not view this as a coordinated attack from a handful of centralized mainstream media players is to miss the real story here.

Jordrok 8y ago
Brigading, brigading. I keep seeing that word tossed around whenever people are unhappy that something inconvenient for them starts getting more attention than they think it deserves. Personally, I'm happy that the media is finally starting to pay attention. Facebook has been doing shady, unethical, user-hostile stuff for a long time - since way before 2016. This has been building for a while now and I think the attention is entirely deserved. And I'm not even part of the Elite Secret Socialist George Soros-Funded Left-Wing Media Cabal.