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If I'm using Safari as my default browser, does it make sense to switch to Firefox just to support them? Interesting that Safari is not coming up in any of thes

If I'm using Safari as my default browser, does it make sense to switch to Firefox just to support them? Interesting that Safari is not coming up in any of these articles as a third competitor, but maybe the fact that it's limited to Mac means it has very small market share.

RandallBrown 8y ago
The Mac is a relatively small market share of the web, but the iPhone isn't and still uses Webkit as its rendering engine.
fooey 8y ago
Safari is awful on the scale of being a 2nd tier browser like IE. It's the browser people use because they don't know any better, or because they don't have any choice. Safari isn't a competitor with Chrome, Firefox, or Edge
- kaixi 8y ago
  Safari is the best choice if you care about battery life. I literally get 2 extra hours of battery life when using Safari on macOS vs using Chrome. What's incredible is that Chrome uses more CPU on Youtube than Safari. When playing the SAME video side by side.
  - eppsilon 8y ago
    Maybe something to do with hardware accelerated h.264 decoding? (Assuming YouTube serves VP8-encoded videos to Chrome users and h.264 ones to Safari users.)
- eppsilon 8y ago
  Safari got a reputation of being "the new IE" a few years ago because it was lagging in standards support. However there's been a lot more progress recently - coinciding with when they started releasing Safari Tech Preview builds. edit: As an example, Safari is 2nd after Chrome in this ES7 support comparison: https://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es2016plus/ https://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es2016plus/
  - fooey 8y ago
    I guess it's fair to say the latest Safari's are much better, but over the last few years our web team definitely cursed Safari for issues more often than we've cursed IE.
- cknoxrun 8y ago
  I actually really enjoy using Safari, and I am not alone. The dev tools are great and the main extensions I use are available. Perhaps you can elaborate a bit more on your experiences with Safari?
- ksec 8y ago
  So which part of it is awful?
- justinph 8y ago
  I switched from Chrome to Safari as my desktop browser a few months ago. I kind of miss uBlock Origin, but other than that I have zero regrets. Safari is noticeably faster, doesn't kill my battery, and the company that makes it isn't continuously trying to sneak in privacy killing features. Instead, every version Apple ships includes more default settings to make my browsing more secure and less trackable. It's a great browser. I still use Chrome for google stuff (e.g. gmail, google docs, GCP, etc), but that's because google has chosen to make their own properties work poorly in other browsers.
- ghostly_s 8y ago
  Of course it's a competitor, I expect it's comfortably the dominant player on the Mac platform. And I find Apple to be the most aggressive of the minor players about addressing rendering issues on major sites.
ProfessorLayton 8y ago
This just made me realize that Apple discontinued Safari for Windows way back in 2012. I had no idea. It seems like it would be in their interests to continue to support Webkit in as many platforms as possible, to avoid a duopoly (Or worse) of rendering engines.
- lostmsu 8y ago
  That could be justified by the market share they gained on mobile. Safari's share on desktop never was significant.
- sorenjan 8y ago
  They released Safari for Windows when they intended iPhone to only run web apps, it was a way for developers on Windows to make mobile "apps". Then they changed direction and Safari for Windows lost it's reason to exist.
  - jdofaz 8y ago
    If that was true they wouldn't have pushed Safari out as an update to windows users who had QuickTime or iTunes. It was checked by default and lots of people installed Safari on Windows without realising it. https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-pushes-safari-on-windows-via-itunes-updater/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-pushes-safari-on-windows-via...
mr_toad 8y ago
The articles are all written by journalists using desktops. They tend to forget about mobile. Safari has about ~5% percent market share on desktops, but 15-25% on mobile, including tablets.
- ksec 8y ago
  >Safari has about ~5% percent market share on desktops, but 15-25% on mobile, including tablets. Depending on Region, it could be up to 15% on Desktop and 60% on Mobile, including tablets. Most people don't realise the devices usage market shares from iOS is actually much larger than they thought.
- justinph 8y ago
  Depends a lot on your site. The large publisher that I work for sees more traffic from Safari/Webkit than Chrome (42% vs 40%) due to mobile traffic on iOS.
newscracker 8y ago
> If I'm using Safari as my default browser, does it make sense to switch to Firefox just to support them? My view and strong suggestion would be, yes, please. And also evangelize Firefox to the non-technical people you know.

RandallBrown 8y ago

The Mac is a relatively small market share of the web, but the iPhone isn't and still uses Webkit as its rendering engine.

fooey 8y ago

Safari is awful on the scale of being a 2nd tier browser like IE. It's the browser people use because they don't know any better, or because they don't have any choice. Safari isn't a competitor with Chrome, Firefox, or Edge

kaixi 8y ago
Safari is the best choice if you care about battery life. I literally get 2 extra hours of battery life when using Safari on macOS vs using Chrome. What's incredible is that Chrome uses more CPU on Youtube than Safari. When playing the SAME video side by side.
- eppsilon 8y ago
  Maybe something to do with hardware accelerated h.264 decoding? (Assuming YouTube serves VP8-encoded videos to Chrome users and h.264 ones to Safari users.)
eppsilon 8y ago
Safari got a reputation of being "the new IE" a few years ago because it was lagging in standards support. However there's been a lot more progress recently - coinciding with when they started releasing Safari Tech Preview builds. edit: As an example, Safari is 2nd after Chrome in this ES7 support comparison: https://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es2016plus/ https://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es2016plus/
- fooey 8y ago
  I guess it's fair to say the latest Safari's are much better, but over the last few years our web team definitely cursed Safari for issues more often than we've cursed IE.
cknoxrun 8y ago
I actually really enjoy using Safari, and I am not alone. The dev tools are great and the main extensions I use are available. Perhaps you can elaborate a bit more on your experiences with Safari?
ksec 8y ago
So which part of it is awful?
justinph 8y ago
I switched from Chrome to Safari as my desktop browser a few months ago. I kind of miss uBlock Origin, but other than that I have zero regrets. Safari is noticeably faster, doesn't kill my battery, and the company that makes it isn't continuously trying to sneak in privacy killing features. Instead, every version Apple ships includes more default settings to make my browsing more secure and less trackable. It's a great browser. I still use Chrome for google stuff (e.g. gmail, google docs, GCP, etc), but that's because google has chosen to make their own properties work poorly in other browsers.
ghostly_s 8y ago
Of course it's a competitor, I expect it's comfortably the dominant player on the Mac platform. And I find Apple to be the most aggressive of the minor players about addressing rendering issues on major sites.

ProfessorLayton 8y ago

This just made me realize that Apple discontinued Safari for Windows way back in 2012. I had no idea. It seems like it would be in their interests to continue to support Webkit in as many platforms as possible, to avoid a duopoly (Or worse) of rendering engines.

lostmsu 8y ago
That could be justified by the market share they gained on mobile. Safari's share on desktop never was significant.
sorenjan 8y ago
They released Safari for Windows when they intended iPhone to only run web apps, it was a way for developers on Windows to make mobile "apps". Then they changed direction and Safari for Windows lost it's reason to exist.
- jdofaz 8y ago
  If that was true they wouldn't have pushed Safari out as an update to windows users who had QuickTime or iTunes. It was checked by default and lots of people installed Safari on Windows without realising it. https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-pushes-safari-on-windows-via-itunes-updater/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-pushes-safari-on-windows-via...

mr_toad 8y ago

The articles are all written by journalists using desktops. They tend to forget about mobile. Safari has about ~5% percent market share on desktops, but 15-25% on mobile, including tablets.

ksec 8y ago
>Safari has about ~5% percent market share on desktops, but 15-25% on mobile, including tablets. Depending on Region, it could be up to 15% on Desktop and 60% on Mobile, including tablets. Most people don't realise the devices usage market shares from iOS is actually much larger than they thought.
justinph 8y ago
Depends a lot on your site. The large publisher that I work for sees more traffic from Safari/Webkit than Chrome (42% vs 40%) due to mobile traffic on iOS.

newscracker 8y ago

> If I'm using Safari as my default browser, does it make sense to switch to Firefox just to support them? My view and strong suggestion would be, yes, please. And also evangelize Firefox to the non-technical people you know.