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> It's not "Orwellian" to say "hey, that shit hurts people, be conscious of how your actions affect other people." It's polite. I think it is Orwellian to decl

> It's not "Orwellian" to say "hey, that shit hurts people, be conscious of how your actions affect other people." It's polite. I think it is Orwellian to declare certain words or phrases "dog whistles" and suppress their usage based on that.

eropple 8y ago
Please explain why identifying the work of white supremacists and similar pustules as their work, and suggesting that decent people should not help them make that work A Thing, is "Orwellian". And to be clear: we know that white supremacists insert these phrases into the public discourse to help strengthen their position through normalization. We know that because they say so. We have the receipts, from Lee Atwater to 4chan galaxy-brain chatter. If you don't want to be thought of as a white supremacist, it's remarkably easy not to parrot their phrases. And nobody's even saying you can't do it if you want to die on that hill. But actions have consequences, don't they?
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  "Please explain why identifying the work of white supremacists and similar pustules as their work, and suggesting that decent people should not help them make that work " That's really easy. The statement 'America is a meritocracy' is not remotely a phrase or statement supporting White Supremacy. The fact any reasonable person would try to put such an innocuous statement in the camp of 'White Supremacy' makes me afraid.
  - zimpenfish 8y ago
    > The statement 'America is a meritocracy' is not remotely a phrase or statement supporting White Supremacy. It could be if you insist that it's a meritocracy in the face of all the evidence that it is overwhelmingly biased towards white people. (It could equally just be an ignorant statement from a blistering ignorant fool who hasn't done any thinking, mind.)
    - manfredo 8y ago
      > It could be if you insist that it's a meritocracy in the face of all the evidence that it is overwhelmingly biased towards white people Last time I checked, Asian Americans were the wealthiest racial demographic in the US. Does it follow that meritocracy is even more biased towards Asians than it is towards Whites? Or, perhaps there's more to it than blanket claims that, "it is overwhelmingly biased towards white people."? This is what is so insidious about accusations of dog-whistling. It's a cheap and effective way of simplifying reality and portraying the target as a straw man. I wonder if the right will adopt this tactic and start calling things like "diversity initiatives" as a dog-whistling for the exclusion of conservatives.
      - zimpenfish 8y ago
        Perhaps I should have said "overwhelmingly biased against people of colour" to be more accurate. Thanks for highlighting that.
  - flagfeedingusa 8y ago
    The funny part to me is the more the left pushes to be thought police, the more regular people will be pushed to the right. Keep it up libs! Yall are signing your own death certificates.
- refurb 8y ago
  Maybe because we don't let a fringe group unilaterally redefine key English words? And maybe because when people use a word we don't automatically assume the worst intent unless there is evidence to support it?
- mooseburger 8y ago
  I have been addicted to 4chan for 10 years now, /pol/ since inception, and this is the first I hear of meritocracy being white supremacy. /pol/ in particular gets a lot of fun from getting progressives to jump at shadows ("It's ok to be white", and that unsuccessful campaign to turn a lone black dot into a symbol of white supremacy). The "O.K. symbol as white supremacist" also came from them I think, and the intent was to get progressives to seem crazy for flipping out at something so innocuous.

eropple 8y ago

Please explain why identifying the work of white supremacists and similar pustules as their work, and suggesting that decent people should not help them make that work A Thing, is "Orwellian". And to be clear: we know that white supremacists insert these phrases into the public discourse to help strengthen their position through normalization. We know that because they say so. We have the receipts, from Lee Atwater to 4chan galaxy-brain chatter. If you don't want to be thought of as a white supremacist, it's remarkably easy not to parrot their phrases. And nobody's even saying you can't do it if you want to die on that hill. But actions have consequences, don't they?

sonnyblarney 8y ago
"Please explain why identifying the work of white supremacists and similar pustules as their work, and suggesting that decent people should not help them make that work " That's really easy. The statement 'America is a meritocracy' is not remotely a phrase or statement supporting White Supremacy. The fact any reasonable person would try to put such an innocuous statement in the camp of 'White Supremacy' makes me afraid.
- zimpenfish 8y ago
  > The statement 'America is a meritocracy' is not remotely a phrase or statement supporting White Supremacy. It could be if you insist that it's a meritocracy in the face of all the evidence that it is overwhelmingly biased towards white people. (It could equally just be an ignorant statement from a blistering ignorant fool who hasn't done any thinking, mind.)
  - manfredo 8y ago
    > It could be if you insist that it's a meritocracy in the face of all the evidence that it is overwhelmingly biased towards white people Last time I checked, Asian Americans were the wealthiest racial demographic in the US. Does it follow that meritocracy is even more biased towards Asians than it is towards Whites? Or, perhaps there's more to it than blanket claims that, "it is overwhelmingly biased towards white people."? This is what is so insidious about accusations of dog-whistling. It's a cheap and effective way of simplifying reality and portraying the target as a straw man. I wonder if the right will adopt this tactic and start calling things like "diversity initiatives" as a dog-whistling for the exclusion of conservatives.
    - zimpenfish 8y ago
      Perhaps I should have said "overwhelmingly biased against people of colour" to be more accurate. Thanks for highlighting that.
- flagfeedingusa 8y ago
  The funny part to me is the more the left pushes to be thought police, the more regular people will be pushed to the right. Keep it up libs! Yall are signing your own death certificates.
refurb 8y ago
Maybe because we don't let a fringe group unilaterally redefine key English words? And maybe because when people use a word we don't automatically assume the worst intent unless there is evidence to support it?
mooseburger 8y ago
I have been addicted to 4chan for 10 years now, /pol/ since inception, and this is the first I hear of meritocracy being white supremacy. /pol/ in particular gets a lot of fun from getting progressives to jump at shadows ("It's ok to be white", and that unsuccessful campaign to turn a lone black dot into a symbol of white supremacy). The "O.K. symbol as white supremacist" also came from them I think, and the intent was to get progressives to seem crazy for flipping out at something so innocuous.