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The government's primary goal is to protect itself and continue growing like cancer. In many ways the citizens are it's greatest threat because they can vote to

The government's primary goal is to protect itself and continue growing like cancer. In many ways the citizens are it's greatest threat because they can vote to cut budget and the power of the political elites. These laws are a way to increase monitoring of citizens so problems can be squashed before they grow too big and threaten the government. Make no mistake, with the rise of ML governments will be able to crush social movements in the nascent stage before they become too big to stop. People will be arrested for thought crimes because they posted the wrong thing on the wrong website. And currently a large number of people would cheer because the people getting arrested are on the "other" side of the political spectrum. Be careful what you wish for

magduf 8y ago
Except that there's other countries where their governments don't seem to have these problems.
- mrguyorama 8y ago
  coughs in American
- tossaccount123 8y ago
  where? From what I've seen Europe, UK, USA, Canada, and especially China are all moving in this direction of more privacy intrusions. Considering the West has traditionally offered the most freedom for its citizens I'd say things are trending towards authoritarian governments
  - magduf 8y ago
    EU seems to be pretty concerned with data privacy, and they even have laws protecting it.
    - cyphar 8y ago
      They have laws protecting individuals from companies, not the government. The GDPR has special exceptions for government investigations, and many EU countries have strong domestic spy agencies that spy on their citizens.
      - magduf 8y ago
        Aside from the UK (which is doing its best to leave the EU, and never really felt like an EU country anyway), which countries are actually spying on their citizens like that to any great extent?
        cyphar 8y ago
        The EU had (until 2014 when it was ruled to violate fundamental rights) a data retention charter which required member states to store all telecommunications data generated within the EU for a period between 6-24 months[1]. The GDPR explicitly allows for government surveillance to be excluded from the directive's protection. Privacy International and a bunch of other NGOs have filed complaints[2] against "Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and the U.K." for violating rulings by the European Court of Justice over illegal mass surveillance. Here's another article[3]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive [2]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2018/06/25/eu-nations-still-breaking-the-law-on-mass-surveillance/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2018/06/25/eu-na... [3]: https://medium.com/privacy-international/a-new-era-of-mass-surveillance-is-emerging-across-europe-3d56ea35c48d https://medium.com/privacy-international/a-new-era-of-mass-s...
lettergram 8y ago
That’s a lot of the reason a large part of the US is pro gun. A few hundred people with weapons can cause so much pain they can negotiate with a nation (see the troubles in Ireland, especially near the end). Point is, so long as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Australia doesn’t allow guns in its citizens hands any more. They gave up their rights, now the government can do what it wants without fear.
- craigsmansion 8y ago
  > as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Or it can shoot up a pre-school. Only one of these things actually happens outside of adolescent power fantasies.
  - flagfeedingusa 8y ago
    Please provide a source of all the preschools that have been shot up in america.
  - lettergram 8y ago
    I actually provided an example where an armed populous did strike fear into the government. The IRA were targeting MPs and fairly quickly after that there were good Friday agreement discussions. There are counter examples to every case, but my point was the Australian government can do what it wants because it's populous let's them.
  - tossaccount123 8y ago
    Afghanistan and Vietnam would love to speak to you. Think about all the heat Obama got for drone strikes in the middle east and now imagine what would happen if they tried to do that in the United States? Factor in that close to 90% of infantry and special forces are either conservative or libertarian. US government is helpless against its citizens as long as they are armed
  - nate_meurer 8y ago
    So, had you lived at the time of the American Revolution, do you imagine yourself among the pretentious loyalists accusing the founding fathers of "adolescent power fantasies"?

magduf 8y ago

Except that there's other countries where their governments don't seem to have these problems.

mrguyorama 8y ago
coughs in American
tossaccount123 8y ago
where? From what I've seen Europe, UK, USA, Canada, and especially China are all moving in this direction of more privacy intrusions. Considering the West has traditionally offered the most freedom for its citizens I'd say things are trending towards authoritarian governments
- magduf 8y ago
  EU seems to be pretty concerned with data privacy, and they even have laws protecting it.
  - cyphar 8y ago
    They have laws protecting individuals from companies, not the government. The GDPR has special exceptions for government investigations, and many EU countries have strong domestic spy agencies that spy on their citizens.
    - magduf 8y ago
      Aside from the UK (which is doing its best to leave the EU, and never really felt like an EU country anyway), which countries are actually spying on their citizens like that to any great extent?
      - cyphar 8y ago
        The EU had (until 2014 when it was ruled to violate fundamental rights) a data retention charter which required member states to store all telecommunications data generated within the EU for a period between 6-24 months[1]. The GDPR explicitly allows for government surveillance to be excluded from the directive's protection. Privacy International and a bunch of other NGOs have filed complaints[2] against "Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and the U.K." for violating rulings by the European Court of Justice over illegal mass surveillance. Here's another article[3]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive [2]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2018/06/25/eu-nations-still-breaking-the-law-on-mass-surveillance/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2018/06/25/eu-na... [3]: https://medium.com/privacy-international/a-new-era-of-mass-surveillance-is-emerging-across-europe-3d56ea35c48d https://medium.com/privacy-international/a-new-era-of-mass-s...

lettergram 8y ago

That’s a lot of the reason a large part of the US is pro gun. A few hundred people with weapons can cause so much pain they can negotiate with a nation (see the troubles in Ireland, especially near the end). Point is, so long as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Australia doesn’t allow guns in its citizens hands any more. They gave up their rights, now the government can do what it wants without fear.

craigsmansion 8y ago
> as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Or it can shoot up a pre-school. Only one of these things actually happens outside of adolescent power fantasies.
- flagfeedingusa 8y ago
  Please provide a source of all the preschools that have been shot up in america.
- lettergram 8y ago
  I actually provided an example where an armed populous did strike fear into the government. The IRA were targeting MPs and fairly quickly after that there were good Friday agreement discussions. There are counter examples to every case, but my point was the Australian government can do what it wants because it's populous let's them.
- tossaccount123 8y ago
  Afghanistan and Vietnam would love to speak to you. Think about all the heat Obama got for drone strikes in the middle east and now imagine what would happen if they tried to do that in the United States? Factor in that close to 90% of infantry and special forces are either conservative or libertarian. US government is helpless against its citizens as long as they are armed
- nate_meurer 8y ago
  So, had you lived at the time of the American Revolution, do you imagine yourself among the pretentious loyalists accusing the founding fathers of "adolescent power fantasies"?