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> the protesters seeing this video will know that surrendering to the police will probably get their arms and feet broken The ones getting their limbs smashed

by stef25 8y ago

> the protesters seeing this video will know that surrendering to the police will probably get their arms and feet broken The ones getting their limbs smashed weren't protesting, they had destroyed and broken in to property with the probable intent of causing more damage. All of this in a setting where police is massively outnumbered while being pelted with 10 pound rocks, bottles, fire crackers and tear gas. Giving someone a beating to incapacitate them (no time for arrest & paperwork) is fair game in my eyes.

paganel 8y ago
> Giving someone a beating to incapacitate them (no time for arrest & paperwork) is fair game in my eyes. This is a very wrong view to hold, imho. Modern political concepts like the German Rechtsstaat or the English "Rule of law" depend on the police not doing what they're seen doing in videos like this one. If the general populace feels (or even starts to feel) that the police and the powers that be play by no rules then we'll be in a world of hurt and anarchy.
- stef25 8y ago
  Let's hope the general populace can see the difference between peaceful protestors and people just wanting violence and destruction. Macron's body guard getting filmed (out of context) beating a protestor led to him being arrested, suspended and then demoted and profuse apologies from France's head of state. So I think police is still being held accountable the way they should.
iodbh 8y ago
By all accounts of those events, the people being assaulted by the riot police in this case went inside the restaurant to seek shelter from the tear gas. Restaurant employees were giving them water. Are you deliberately spreading lies or are you just just misrepresenting your wild guess as sound information ?
- stef25 8y ago
  > "to seek shelter from the tear gas" Of course they would say that. You can clearly see the restaurant wasn't open by the way the sliding doors were being pushed open (0:06), and a "fermé" sign on the door (meaning "closed") at 0:16. No employees visible anywhere. To get away from the gas, why not run down the road the camera man was chased down by the cop? No gas there, no resistance from police and much easier than breaking & entering a restaurant. In fact if you look on a map, the location of that BK is on a roundabout with no less than 10 roads branching off it. But yes, those are my guesses based on the information available and I may be wrong.
  - iodbh 8y ago
    There have been multiple account of what happened as several journalists were present. Here is one of the many articles that have been published, I am linking this testimony by two journalists since liberation is a reputable publication, but you'll find more articles and more witness interviews if you look around. https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2018/12/05/la-video-des-gilets-jaunes-matraques-dans-un-burger-king-est-elle-vraie_1696063 https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2018/12/05/la-video-des-... Everybody present has told that the riot police just waltzed inside and starting beating people up, then let people leave but only going through a tunnel of cops beating them up some more. There are also more videos from different angles. Assumptions are dangerous, and so are these stormtroopers.
    - stef25 8y ago
      I'm not going to argue with journalists from la Liberation and have no doubt their testimonials are true. It's still not clear why they would enter a BK (full of tear gas, according to the journalist) while at least some of the surrounding roads were free. If they really were beating innocent bystanders then they should be punished to the full extent of the law, while at the same time I understand the violent reaction of the police after having been pelted with rocks for hours just for wearing a uniform. I've been in these kind of protests before, you can tell well in advance that things are going to get ugly. When you have police being attacked from all sides and you intend no harm, you know it's time to gtfo because you will get caught up in the violence.

by stef25 8y ago

paganel 8y ago

> Giving someone a beating to incapacitate them (no time for arrest & paperwork) is fair game in my eyes. This is a very wrong view to hold, imho. Modern political concepts like the German Rechtsstaat or the English "Rule of law" depend on the police not doing what they're seen doing in videos like this one. If the general populace feels (or even starts to feel) that the police and the powers that be play by no rules then we'll be in a world of hurt and anarchy.

stef25 8y ago
Let's hope the general populace can see the difference between peaceful protestors and people just wanting violence and destruction. Macron's body guard getting filmed (out of context) beating a protestor led to him being arrested, suspended and then demoted and profuse apologies from France's head of state. So I think police is still being held accountable the way they should.

iodbh 8y ago

By all accounts of those events, the people being assaulted by the riot police in this case went inside the restaurant to seek shelter from the tear gas. Restaurant employees were giving them water. Are you deliberately spreading lies or are you just just misrepresenting your wild guess as sound information ?

stef25 8y ago
> "to seek shelter from the tear gas" Of course they would say that. You can clearly see the restaurant wasn't open by the way the sliding doors were being pushed open (0:06), and a "fermé" sign on the door (meaning "closed") at 0:16. No employees visible anywhere. To get away from the gas, why not run down the road the camera man was chased down by the cop? No gas there, no resistance from police and much easier than breaking & entering a restaurant. In fact if you look on a map, the location of that BK is on a roundabout with no less than 10 roads branching off it. But yes, those are my guesses based on the information available and I may be wrong.
- iodbh 8y ago
  There have been multiple account of what happened as several journalists were present. Here is one of the many articles that have been published, I am linking this testimony by two journalists since liberation is a reputable publication, but you'll find more articles and more witness interviews if you look around. https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2018/12/05/la-video-des-gilets-jaunes-matraques-dans-un-burger-king-est-elle-vraie_1696063 https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2018/12/05/la-video-des-... Everybody present has told that the riot police just waltzed inside and starting beating people up, then let people leave but only going through a tunnel of cops beating them up some more. There are also more videos from different angles. Assumptions are dangerous, and so are these stormtroopers.
  - stef25 8y ago
    I'm not going to argue with journalists from la Liberation and have no doubt their testimonials are true. It's still not clear why they would enter a BK (full of tear gas, according to the journalist) while at least some of the surrounding roads were free. If they really were beating innocent bystanders then they should be punished to the full extent of the law, while at the same time I understand the violent reaction of the police after having been pelted with rocks for hours just for wearing a uniform. I've been in these kind of protests before, you can tell well in advance that things are going to get ugly. When you have police being attacked from all sides and you intend no harm, you know it's time to gtfo because you will get caught up in the violence.