6 ms·

Waiting to pay for a product until it actually exists won't kill you.

whatshisface 8y ago
It will, metaphorically, if a lack of funding will kill the product (or prevent it from ever being made). Crowdfunding is a financing option, complete with the part where the financiers are exposed to risk.
- estomagordo 8y ago
  It's a rubbish financing option. The financers on average don't seem very good at comparing their little upside to the risk they're taking.
  - jacobush 8y ago
    The ones I hear talking about their sponsoring, is that they know full well. I hear phrasing such as "shooting some money their way in case they succeed" and "it's an interesting project, let's hope for the best".
    - estomagordo 8y ago
      It's pretty damn stupid, know it or not.
      - Mtinie 8y ago
        Why? It’s effectively a patronage; a model which has been used to bankroll artists, pet projects, and a number of risky ideas throughout history.
        estomagordo 8y ago
        It's effectively investment, but without any of the benefits.
      - tudelo 8y ago
        There is often very little risk... a small amount of disposable income to potentially get an interesting niche product. It is not meant to be a "smart" money decision. Not sure where you are getting that idea from...
        roywiggins 8y ago
        Right, but if I just wait a year (or however long) I can usually go buy that niche product without the risk. It's a pre-order.
        tudelo 8y ago
        If you are talking about kickstarter and the like, no, there is a very real chance you will not be able to buy it if you don't fund it. There is also a very real chance that you won't get it even if you do fund it. And if it doesn't get funded in the first place, there is zero chance. Unless you were referring to some other sort of funding process. FWIW I do not participate in kickstarter, but that is because I like having things I spend money on. I know plenty of people who do. So, I think it's in general a good service.
    - exolymph 8y ago
      Exactly. I back crowdfunding product campaigns occasionally and I just assume that 10-20% of them won't work out even if they raise the money
- nkrisc 8y ago
  You're entirely correct. I have not, however, seen anything so critical that the world would suffer if it did not come to fruition. We're no worse off if that smart water bottle never gets made. The environment might even be better for it.
  - always_good 8y ago
    You could say this about anything though, so it's not very damning criticism of Kickstarter. Also applies to Hacker News and everything, individually, at the grocery store. And all the Amazon boxes piling up on our doorstep from holiday deals. Maybe you'd agree with that. I just never was a fan of the "oh, it's those people who are doing it wrong" as we ourselves indulge in a different set of the same thing.
- roywiggins 8y ago
  My $100 (or whatever) isn't likely to be the difference between something being funded or not; if it's going to be funded anyway, I might as well let some other guy put up the money, and I'll buy the product when it's available generally. Crowdfunders are exposed to risk, but they aren't going to profit. Real investment comes with the prospect of an actual upside for the investors, but if I can just buy the product later when it actually exists (crowdfunding discounts aside) why not just do that?
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    "My $100 (or whatever) isn't likely to be the difference between something being funded or not; " It absolutely will. I have a very close acquaintaince in the process of doing hardware (and I have experience with this myself). Getting the first production run is brutally difficult, and the operating captiol requirement just doesn't exist. VC's don't want to pay for it, and neither do business development banks. Though I think there is a lot of scamming ... 'hardware is hard'. Really hard. I actually believe a lot of it is 1/2 way - they raise money with good intentions, but then are just stupid and lazy in getting production up, and then can't afford it. Once a team has 1 million - if they get production up, maybe they get 100K in profit. But if they 'fail' to get production up ... they can keep maybe $700 in 'profit' i.e. what they didn't spend on units. Maybe a better solution would be to have escrow and pay on delivery, with partial payments or something like that.
gnicholas 8y ago
Tell that to my Pebble Time 2...

It will, metaphorically, if a lack of funding will kill the product (or prevent it from ever being made). Crowdfunding is a financing option, complete with the part where the financiers are exposed to risk.

estomagordo 8y ago
It's a rubbish financing option. The financers on average don't seem very good at comparing their little upside to the risk they're taking.
- jacobush 8y ago
  The ones I hear talking about their sponsoring, is that they know full well. I hear phrasing such as "shooting some money their way in case they succeed" and "it's an interesting project, let's hope for the best".
  - estomagordo 8y ago
    It's pretty damn stupid, know it or not.
    - Mtinie 8y ago
      Why? It’s effectively a patronage; a model which has been used to bankroll artists, pet projects, and a number of risky ideas throughout history.
      - estomagordo 8y ago
        It's effectively investment, but without any of the benefits.
    - tudelo 8y ago
      There is often very little risk... a small amount of disposable income to potentially get an interesting niche product. It is not meant to be a "smart" money decision. Not sure where you are getting that idea from...
      - roywiggins 8y ago
        Right, but if I just wait a year (or however long) I can usually go buy that niche product without the risk. It's a pre-order.
        tudelo 8y ago
        If you are talking about kickstarter and the like, no, there is a very real chance you will not be able to buy it if you don't fund it. There is also a very real chance that you won't get it even if you do fund it. And if it doesn't get funded in the first place, there is zero chance. Unless you were referring to some other sort of funding process. FWIW I do not participate in kickstarter, but that is because I like having things I spend money on. I know plenty of people who do. So, I think it's in general a good service.
  - exolymph 8y ago
    Exactly. I back crowdfunding product campaigns occasionally and I just assume that 10-20% of them won't work out even if they raise the money
nkrisc 8y ago
You're entirely correct. I have not, however, seen anything so critical that the world would suffer if it did not come to fruition. We're no worse off if that smart water bottle never gets made. The environment might even be better for it.
- always_good 8y ago
  You could say this about anything though, so it's not very damning criticism of Kickstarter. Also applies to Hacker News and everything, individually, at the grocery store. And all the Amazon boxes piling up on our doorstep from holiday deals. Maybe you'd agree with that. I just never was a fan of the "oh, it's those people who are doing it wrong" as we ourselves indulge in a different set of the same thing.
roywiggins 8y ago
My $100 (or whatever) isn't likely to be the difference between something being funded or not; if it's going to be funded anyway, I might as well let some other guy put up the money, and I'll buy the product when it's available generally. Crowdfunders are exposed to risk, but they aren't going to profit. Real investment comes with the prospect of an actual upside for the investors, but if I can just buy the product later when it actually exists (crowdfunding discounts aside) why not just do that?
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  "My $100 (or whatever) isn't likely to be the difference between something being funded or not; " It absolutely will. I have a very close acquaintaince in the process of doing hardware (and I have experience with this myself). Getting the first production run is brutally difficult, and the operating captiol requirement just doesn't exist. VC's don't want to pay for it, and neither do business development banks. Though I think there is a lot of scamming ... 'hardware is hard'. Really hard. I actually believe a lot of it is 1/2 way - they raise money with good intentions, but then are just stupid and lazy in getting production up, and then can't afford it. Once a team has 1 million - if they get production up, maybe they get 100K in profit. But if they 'fail' to get production up ... they can keep maybe $700 in 'profit' i.e. what they didn't spend on units. Maybe a better solution would be to have escrow and pay on delivery, with partial payments or something like that.

gnicholas 8y ago

Tell that to my Pebble Time 2...