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I've never understood why Soros is such a bogeyman to so many people. As far as I can see (from my position as a believer in so-called "western values" like fre

I've never understood why Soros is such a bogeyman to so many people. As far as I can see (from my position as a believer in so-called "western values" like freedom of speech, rule of law and fair elections), his goals seem entirely noble. I get why despots like Viktor Orban hate Soros, but what about all the others? Do they hate him because he's rich and spends his money on politics? Because he comes off like a meddler, butting into other countries' affairs? Because he's (apparently?) Jewish? What is it?

M2Ys4U 8y ago
>I've never understood why Soros is such a bogeyman to so many people. Anti-Semitism.
- vixen99 8y ago
  Simple solutions for ...
drewmol 8y ago
While I'm not well informed enough to have a strong opinion on the matter, the bad things I've heard are mostly related to his profits from currency speculation and similar, which many people feel were immoral actions taken by Mr. Soros and untimately harmful to the nations who's currency he profited off by shorting. That's plenty of information regarding his past financial dealings if you are interested.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  That might well be true, but I have to assume there are plenty of wealthy financiers out in the world making money from currency speculation, and you and I have never heard of them. It's hard for me to believe 'shady currency speculation' is really the root of the antipathy toward Soros. It's like those climate change deniers who have a ready list of negative stories about Al Gore: I'm sure Gore has done some obnoxious things in his life, but you get the impression they went digging for dirt to justify their pre-existing distaste for the man.
- matt4077 8y ago
  He brought down Bretton-Woods in the 70s. That system was simply ripe for the taking, had almost collapsed in 68 (because the German Mark being fixed to the Franc and Dollar just doesn’t work when growth diverges), and would have collapsed eventually, possibly with more damaging results. The criticism of Soros in Eastern Europe is simply the fear of the local wannabe strongmen of opposition. Soros funds mostly journalism and other civil society institutions (debate clubs at universities etc). That criticism is channeled through anti-semitism, which still has currency in Hungary. Do a google image search if you don’t believe me. In the US, he’s just a welcome foil for the alt-right to counter the Koch narrative, even though Soros historically did not actually support candidates, only causes. The anti-semitism is more subdued there, because it’s not (yet) acceptable in polite company. But polite company is almost as bankrupt as a Trump casino now, so we’ll see.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  Those were essentially the UK's fault, and it's not like Soros was the only one taking advantage; if you're a market economy it's hard to blame a market for acting like a market. Today, it'd have been automated trading systems, probably. Edit: I do think, by the way, that it’s telling that Soros is about the only example people ever give in cases of market forces harming a country. When Britain sold gold just before the gold bubble really inflated, no one blamed the gold traders; they blamed Brown, say.
village-idiot 8y ago
There are several answers with a variety of cynicism. At the lowest level of cynicism, both parties love to have a boogeyman, and often the level of attention and criticism these targets get goes way too far. Next level of cynicism: he’s a Jewish liberal, and a large majority of antisemities vote right, not left. By now non-racist republicans are very good at ignoring or rationalizing the bigots around them, so really loud dog whistles have no negative consequences. Final level of cynicism: republicans and right wing parties across Europe are no longer interested in democracy, and are now trending rapidly towards open fascism. Soros’ love of free speech and fair elections are a problem to them, not a shared value between otherwise political opponents.
- agsdfgsd 8y ago
  >Soros’ love of free speech and fair elections Why do you think he wants either of those things? He funds campaigns to end free speech and put in place laws to restrict speech to only those views he considers acceptable. He funds organizations specifically to interfere in fair elections and attempt to maintain a far left hegemony across Europe.
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    > He funds organizations specifically to interfere in fair elections and attempt to maintain a far left hegemony across Europe. Maintain a "far left hegemony"? Have you ever been in Europe? Does your knowledge of Europe come entirely from 4chan? Hint; there are no far-left ruling parties/coalitions anywhere in Europe.
    - agsdfgsd 8y ago
      Just saying "Hint;" before posting your opinion doesn't actually invalidate other opinions. Just because what most people consider far left you consider to be moderate, doesn't make your opinion fact and everyone else's wrong.
      - rsynnott 8y ago
agsdfgsd 8y ago
>I've never understood why Soros is such a bogeyman to so many people. Because he is openly, actively and deliberately engaged in their genocide. >I get why despots like Viktor Orban hate Soros How is he a despot? He is an elected leader, doing what the people who elected him want. But because he doesn't cave to the EU agenda to replace native Europeans in their own homeland, he is evil? Edit: Ironically, HN shows exactly how this works. The left asks a question, a centrist answers, and gets censored. The message is clear, you don't want to hear the answer, you just want to plaintively wail about the evil people who disagree with you being so terrible and impossible to understand. The more you ignore the majority, the more extreme they become in opposition to you. Look at the rise of national socialist groups in Europe right now. You are creating the boogeyman you fear by your refusal to engage in dialogue.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  Orban is shutting down press and educational institutions that question him. That's despotic behavior in my book. Just this week: https://slate.com/technology/2018/12/central-european-university-hungary-technology-freedom.html https://slate.com/technology/2018/12/central-european-univer...
  - agsdfgsd 8y ago
    Slate, an openly pro-communist tabloid, can't even manage to construe that as despotic behavior. How is "an anti-Hungary EU propaganda firm left the country" despotic behavior from Orban?
- shaki-dora 8y ago
  I'm flagging this for accusing George Soros of genocide. Accusing people of (the worst of) crimes without even an attempt to show any evidence can only serve to poison any rational debate. In addition, "genocide" as it's commonly understood, i. e. the physical homicide of a people, is so obviously wrong not even a fascist troll account would go there. The user therefore seems to be referring to some perceived harm to Hungary they equate to "genocide". I believe they are referring to the European migrant crisis. To equate immigration with genocide reveals a thoroughly racist worldview.

M2Ys4U 8y ago

>I've never understood why Soros is such a bogeyman to so many people. Anti-Semitism.

vixen99 8y ago
Simple solutions for ...

drewmol 8y ago

While I'm not well informed enough to have a strong opinion on the matter, the bad things I've heard are mostly related to his profits from currency speculation and similar, which many people feel were immoral actions taken by Mr. Soros and untimately harmful to the nations who's currency he profited off by shorting. That's plenty of information regarding his past financial dealings if you are interested.

ForHackernews 8y ago
That might well be true, but I have to assume there are plenty of wealthy financiers out in the world making money from currency speculation, and you and I have never heard of them. It's hard for me to believe 'shady currency speculation' is really the root of the antipathy toward Soros. It's like those climate change deniers who have a ready list of negative stories about Al Gore: I'm sure Gore has done some obnoxious things in his life, but you get the impression they went digging for dirt to justify their pre-existing distaste for the man.
matt4077 8y ago
He brought down Bretton-Woods in the 70s. That system was simply ripe for the taking, had almost collapsed in 68 (because the German Mark being fixed to the Franc and Dollar just doesn’t work when growth diverges), and would have collapsed eventually, possibly with more damaging results. The criticism of Soros in Eastern Europe is simply the fear of the local wannabe strongmen of opposition. Soros funds mostly journalism and other civil society institutions (debate clubs at universities etc). That criticism is channeled through anti-semitism, which still has currency in Hungary. Do a google image search if you don’t believe me. In the US, he’s just a welcome foil for the alt-right to counter the Koch narrative, even though Soros historically did not actually support candidates, only causes. The anti-semitism is more subdued there, because it’s not (yet) acceptable in polite company. But polite company is almost as bankrupt as a Trump casino now, so we’ll see.
rsynnott 8y ago
Those were essentially the UK's fault, and it's not like Soros was the only one taking advantage; if you're a market economy it's hard to blame a market for acting like a market. Today, it'd have been automated trading systems, probably. Edit: I do think, by the way, that it’s telling that Soros is about the only example people ever give in cases of market forces harming a country. When Britain sold gold just before the gold bubble really inflated, no one blamed the gold traders; they blamed Brown, say.

village-idiot 8y ago

There are several answers with a variety of cynicism. At the lowest level of cynicism, both parties love to have a boogeyman, and often the level of attention and criticism these targets get goes way too far. Next level of cynicism: he’s a Jewish liberal, and a large majority of antisemities vote right, not left. By now non-racist republicans are very good at ignoring or rationalizing the bigots around them, so really loud dog whistles have no negative consequences. Final level of cynicism: republicans and right wing parties across Europe are no longer interested in democracy, and are now trending rapidly towards open fascism. Soros’ love of free speech and fair elections are a problem to them, not a shared value between otherwise political opponents.

agsdfgsd 8y ago
>Soros’ love of free speech and fair elections Why do you think he wants either of those things? He funds campaigns to end free speech and put in place laws to restrict speech to only those views he considers acceptable. He funds organizations specifically to interfere in fair elections and attempt to maintain a far left hegemony across Europe.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  > He funds organizations specifically to interfere in fair elections and attempt to maintain a far left hegemony across Europe. Maintain a "far left hegemony"? Have you ever been in Europe? Does your knowledge of Europe come entirely from 4chan? Hint; there are no far-left ruling parties/coalitions anywhere in Europe.
  - agsdfgsd 8y ago
    Just saying "Hint;" before posting your opinion doesn't actually invalidate other opinions. Just because what most people consider far left you consider to be moderate, doesn't make your opinion fact and everyone else's wrong.
    - rsynnott 8y ago

agsdfgsd 8y ago

>I've never understood why Soros is such a bogeyman to so many people. Because he is openly, actively and deliberately engaged in their genocide. >I get why despots like Viktor Orban hate Soros How is he a despot? He is an elected leader, doing what the people who elected him want. But because he doesn't cave to the EU agenda to replace native Europeans in their own homeland, he is evil? Edit: Ironically, HN shows exactly how this works. The left asks a question, a centrist answers, and gets censored. The message is clear, you don't want to hear the answer, you just want to plaintively wail about the evil people who disagree with you being so terrible and impossible to understand. The more you ignore the majority, the more extreme they become in opposition to you. Look at the rise of national socialist groups in Europe right now. You are creating the boogeyman you fear by your refusal to engage in dialogue.

ForHackernews 8y ago
Orban is shutting down press and educational institutions that question him. That's despotic behavior in my book. Just this week: https://slate.com/technology/2018/12/central-european-university-hungary-technology-freedom.html https://slate.com/technology/2018/12/central-european-univer...
- agsdfgsd 8y ago
  Slate, an openly pro-communist tabloid, can't even manage to construe that as despotic behavior. How is "an anti-Hungary EU propaganda firm left the country" despotic behavior from Orban?
shaki-dora 8y ago
I'm flagging this for accusing George Soros of genocide. Accusing people of (the worst of) crimes without even an attempt to show any evidence can only serve to poison any rational debate. In addition, "genocide" as it's commonly understood, i. e. the physical homicide of a people, is so obviously wrong not even a fascist troll account would go there. The user therefore seems to be referring to some perceived harm to Hungary they equate to "genocide". I believe they are referring to the European migrant crisis. To equate immigration with genocide reveals a thoroughly racist worldview.