5 ms·

No problem USA! Go back on the Iran deal, go back on the Paris climate deal, go back on TPP. Just don't expect that anyone believes you anymore.

AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
You think THIS proves the US is not a trustworthy nation? Why choose to ignore the last 100+ years of the US's backstory and focus on this rather minor setback to make such a bold statement? I would imagine any amount of trust we had left was entirely exhausted more than 40 years ago, during the Nixon shock [0] and Exorbitant privilege [1]. Surely, you realize the US earns its status on the global stage via its violent & powerful military, and the PetroDollar? It is foolish to suggest that the US expects other nations to possess any pretense of trust. You don't have to believe me, because after all I'm just some dumb American. But you may want to take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself who is being the true "American" here. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorbitant_privilege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorbitant_privilege
- chopin 8y ago
  Trust is lost in buckets, and earned in drops. The US will learn this the hard way. There's never been a discussion about a European army, now it crops up, for example. Even if the next administration is deemed trustworthy what's with the one coming after that?
  - gonvaled 8y ago
    AND pushing for international clearing in Euros, which is much more damaging for the interests of the US.
  - creaghpatr 8y ago
    >There's never been a discussion about a European army, now it crops up, for example. Haha, good luck with that. EU will always come crawling to grovel for US military support, don’t be naive.
    - emptyfile 8y ago
      AFAIK in the last 2 decades it was Europeans supporting American wars not the other way around... But I guess the war in Iraq was too long ago to be remembered today by Americans.
      - creaghpatr 8y ago
        I guess you must think they did that out of the goodness of their heart? Do you know the funding structure of NATO? The US subsidizes the freedom of every European country, this will not change ever.
        chopin 8y ago
        This is the hard lesson for the Europeans: they need to take their fate into their own hands. I am skeptical, but "not change ever" is a pretty bold statement.
        freeflight 8y ago
        It seems like you don't know the structure of NATO because so far the US has been the only NATO member to ever evoke article 11 for "joint defense pact" [0] in response to the 9/11 attacks which ushered the "War on Terror" with all it's ugly, inhumane and illegal manifestations to this day. In that context, a shockingly high amount of comments here are of extremely low quality and reflect a whole lot of "ugly US American" along the same lines of a Trump who boasts about how the US supposedly singlehandedly saved Europe from two world wars. People from all kinds of allied countries died for these US interests in Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other countries, yet comments here are seriously complaining about a lack of "contribution" in a war that wasn't only illegal [1], it was also highly unpopular pretty much everywhere outside the Anglo-Saxon sphere [2]. If countries like Germany would have went along with what their population actually demanded, the US would have been hard-pressed to stage that whole thing in the MENA region without Ramstein Air Base, just like drone controls go through Germany to this day. These, along with the MENA refugee streams which date back to Afghanistan and Iraq, are among the main factors why right-wing nationalism is on the rise in Europe. No need for any "Russian interference", it's plenty enough when people perceive their own government acting against their own best wishes and interests like it's been repeatedly happening in Germany. Not just in the context of Afghanistan/Iraq support, but also the whole NSA episode which had literally no consequences at all. In that context, I'd be really interested from whom the US is supposedly "protecting" Europe these days? Iraq? Iran? China? Russia? Really? The US is in Europe because it profits from being in Europe, you can't project "global military power" [3] without a supporting global network of military infrastructure and contrary to popular belief these "host nations" are no freeloaders [4]. One would think that a president like Trump would have served as a mirror to US Americans how their mannerism is often perceived outside the US, sadly that seems not to be the case. It's particularly absurd in the current "anti-Chinese" context, Reddit is full of people trying to justify this arrest with the "inhumane treatment of Muslims in China", which is a page China took straight out of the US's playbook: Label them terrorists and all their rights, human or not, and suddenly nullified and everything is allowed, including torture and targeted assassinations. Either people have really short/selective memories or they can only care/be aware of whatever is currently being propagandized [5] all over the English speaking Internet. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/us/after-attacks-alliance-for-first-time-nato-invokes-joint-defense-pact-with-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/us/after-attacks-alliance... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq [2] https://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html https://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html [3] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251629141_The_US_military_base_network_and_contemporary_colonialism_Power_projection_resistance_and_the_quest_for_operational_unilateralism https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251629141_The_US_mi... [4] https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-allies-20160930-snap-story.html https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-allies-20160930-s... [5] https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-...
- emptyfile 8y ago
  >You think THIS proves the US is not a trustworthy nation? Yes >Why choose to ignore the last 100+ years of the US's backstory I was born in '93 so what happened 100 years ago isn't much of a concern for me. >and focus on this rather minor setback to make such a bold statement? Calling climate change a chinese hoax and exiting a global climate deal is not a minor setback. Destroying the trust that Obama built over 8 years since Iraq and rolling back all his promises to the world, while having a 40%+ domestic approval rating, is not a minor setback. >Surely, you realize the US earns its status on the global stage via its violent & powerful military, and the PetroDollar? It is foolish to suggest that the US expects other nations to possess any pretense of trust. No I'm not aware that USA/EU common trade and foreign policy interested rest on us being afraid of the American armed forces, or on what currency is used to buy petrol. >You don't have to believe me, because after all I'm just some dumb American. But you may want to take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself who is being the true "American" What? Is this just a roundabout way of telling me I'm dumb?
  - philipps 8y ago
    > I was born in '93 so what happened 100 years ago isn't much of a concern for me. Newtonian physics. World War II. Penicillin. A lot of things that happened a long time ago shape your reality today. This is not related to the Huawei case, but I wish more people would take into account how their actions might affect those living 100 years in the future.
  - Rooster61 8y ago
    > I was born in '93 so what happened 100 years ago isn't much of a concern for me. This is a painfully ignorant statement. Every facet of your life is shaped by the actions of those in the past. > or on what currency is used to buy petrol. This literally is the thing regulates how every currency on the planet is valued/traded. EVERYTHING is based on the relationship between the dollar and the price of oil, including the USA/EU trade relationship, and every other trade relationship for that matter. Is that a good thing? Depends on who you ask, but it is nevertheless the current reality. > What? Is this just a roundabout way of telling me I'm dumb? No, but you aren't exactly making a great case for yourself.
dang 8y ago
Generic nationalistic flamewar comments will get you banned on HN. Please don't post like this here, regardless of which nations you favor or disfavor. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18616293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18616293 and marked it off-topic.

AndrewUnmuted 8y ago

You think THIS proves the US is not a trustworthy nation? Why choose to ignore the last 100+ years of the US's backstory and focus on this rather minor setback to make such a bold statement? I would imagine any amount of trust we had left was entirely exhausted more than 40 years ago, during the Nixon shock [0] and Exorbitant privilege [1]. Surely, you realize the US earns its status on the global stage via its violent & powerful military, and the PetroDollar? It is foolish to suggest that the US expects other nations to possess any pretense of trust. You don't have to believe me, because after all I'm just some dumb American. But you may want to take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself who is being the true "American" here. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorbitant_privilege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorbitant_privilege

chopin 8y ago
Trust is lost in buckets, and earned in drops. The US will learn this the hard way. There's never been a discussion about a European army, now it crops up, for example. Even if the next administration is deemed trustworthy what's with the one coming after that?
- gonvaled 8y ago
  AND pushing for international clearing in Euros, which is much more damaging for the interests of the US.
- creaghpatr 8y ago
  >There's never been a discussion about a European army, now it crops up, for example. Haha, good luck with that. EU will always come crawling to grovel for US military support, don’t be naive.
  - emptyfile 8y ago
    AFAIK in the last 2 decades it was Europeans supporting American wars not the other way around... But I guess the war in Iraq was too long ago to be remembered today by Americans.
    - creaghpatr 8y ago
      I guess you must think they did that out of the goodness of their heart? Do you know the funding structure of NATO? The US subsidizes the freedom of every European country, this will not change ever.
      - chopin 8y ago
        This is the hard lesson for the Europeans: they need to take their fate into their own hands. I am skeptical, but "not change ever" is a pretty bold statement.
      - freeflight 8y ago
        It seems like you don't know the structure of NATO because so far the US has been the only NATO member to ever evoke article 11 for "joint defense pact" [0] in response to the 9/11 attacks which ushered the "War on Terror" with all it's ugly, inhumane and illegal manifestations to this day. In that context, a shockingly high amount of comments here are of extremely low quality and reflect a whole lot of "ugly US American" along the same lines of a Trump who boasts about how the US supposedly singlehandedly saved Europe from two world wars. People from all kinds of allied countries died for these US interests in Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other countries, yet comments here are seriously complaining about a lack of "contribution" in a war that wasn't only illegal [1], it was also highly unpopular pretty much everywhere outside the Anglo-Saxon sphere [2]. If countries like Germany would have went along with what their population actually demanded, the US would have been hard-pressed to stage that whole thing in the MENA region without Ramstein Air Base, just like drone controls go through Germany to this day. These, along with the MENA refugee streams which date back to Afghanistan and Iraq, are among the main factors why right-wing nationalism is on the rise in Europe. No need for any "Russian interference", it's plenty enough when people perceive their own government acting against their own best wishes and interests like it's been repeatedly happening in Germany. Not just in the context of Afghanistan/Iraq support, but also the whole NSA episode which had literally no consequences at all. In that context, I'd be really interested from whom the US is supposedly "protecting" Europe these days? Iraq? Iran? China? Russia? Really? The US is in Europe because it profits from being in Europe, you can't project "global military power" [3] without a supporting global network of military infrastructure and contrary to popular belief these "host nations" are no freeloaders [4]. One would think that a president like Trump would have served as a mirror to US Americans how their mannerism is often perceived outside the US, sadly that seems not to be the case. It's particularly absurd in the current "anti-Chinese" context, Reddit is full of people trying to justify this arrest with the "inhumane treatment of Muslims in China", which is a page China took straight out of the US's playbook: Label them terrorists and all their rights, human or not, and suddenly nullified and everything is allowed, including torture and targeted assassinations. Either people have really short/selective memories or they can only care/be aware of whatever is currently being propagandized [5] all over the English speaking Internet. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/us/after-attacks-alliance-for-first-time-nato-invokes-joint-defense-pact-with-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/us/after-attacks-alliance... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq [2] https://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html https://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html [3] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251629141_The_US_military_base_network_and_contemporary_colonialism_Power_projection_resistance_and_the_quest_for_operational_unilateralism https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251629141_The_US_mi... [4] https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-allies-20160930-snap-story.html https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-allies-20160930-s... [5] https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-...
emptyfile 8y ago
>You think THIS proves the US is not a trustworthy nation? Yes >Why choose to ignore the last 100+ years of the US's backstory I was born in '93 so what happened 100 years ago isn't much of a concern for me. >and focus on this rather minor setback to make such a bold statement? Calling climate change a chinese hoax and exiting a global climate deal is not a minor setback. Destroying the trust that Obama built over 8 years since Iraq and rolling back all his promises to the world, while having a 40%+ domestic approval rating, is not a minor setback. >Surely, you realize the US earns its status on the global stage via its violent & powerful military, and the PetroDollar? It is foolish to suggest that the US expects other nations to possess any pretense of trust. No I'm not aware that USA/EU common trade and foreign policy interested rest on us being afraid of the American armed forces, or on what currency is used to buy petrol. >You don't have to believe me, because after all I'm just some dumb American. But you may want to take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself who is being the true "American" What? Is this just a roundabout way of telling me I'm dumb?
- philipps 8y ago
  > I was born in '93 so what happened 100 years ago isn't much of a concern for me. Newtonian physics. World War II. Penicillin. A lot of things that happened a long time ago shape your reality today. This is not related to the Huawei case, but I wish more people would take into account how their actions might affect those living 100 years in the future.
- Rooster61 8y ago
  > I was born in '93 so what happened 100 years ago isn't much of a concern for me. This is a painfully ignorant statement. Every facet of your life is shaped by the actions of those in the past. > or on what currency is used to buy petrol. This literally is the thing regulates how every currency on the planet is valued/traded. EVERYTHING is based on the relationship between the dollar and the price of oil, including the USA/EU trade relationship, and every other trade relationship for that matter. Is that a good thing? Depends on who you ask, but it is nevertheless the current reality. > What? Is this just a roundabout way of telling me I'm dumb? No, but you aren't exactly making a great case for yourself.

dang 8y ago

Generic nationalistic flamewar comments will get you banned on HN. Please don't post like this here, regardless of which nations you favor or disfavor. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18616293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18616293 and marked it off-topic.