5 ms·

The main contract may have a clause it's only valid, if you also sign the NCA and NSA agreements. At least mine had.

by ascar 8y ago

logfromblammo 8y ago
I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that any good one would advise you not to agree to anything you haven't read first. This is why you show contracts to lawyers before signing. You have to avoid unnecessary warranties, contingent agreements, hidden addendums, and other traps for the unwary. The contract should be the whole agreement, and ideally should also say that it is the whole agreement. Just cross that clause out with your pen, and if questioned, say that you haven't seen the documents they were trying to incorporate by reference. If they are contract terms, they can appear as clauses in the contract, and you should be able to negotiate reasonable compensation for them. Few companies have ever tried such trickery with me, but then again they have operated almost entirely without lengthy contracts--basically, just starting date, starting rate of pay, and the "at will" clause. Those that did push documents at me early enough got to see my editing pen. But my smartass resistance to their dubious documents never got me to an offer or a real negotiation, either. I am especially fond of crossing out the part of a background check clause that allows them to keep the 3rd-party report secret from me, while also sharing it with any other parties they please. Ordinarily, I'd just walk out, but I figure that crossing that part out puts the ball back in their court.
- ascar 8y ago
  Not sure why you jumped to trickery. I got them handed at the same time, actually in the same DocuSign pdf. They were basically an addendum mentioned in the contract that required a separate signature, even though the signing was required by the main work contract and non-optional. I guess it's just a way to create a better overview like we split stuff in multiple files in programming. The thing is you don't have much way to negotiate this stuff with companies of a certain size. It's done by their lawyer and everyone gets the same stuff. Just changing we wording on the relocation and signing bonus (because the original wording made absolutely no sense in my case) took over a week of mailing stuff between lawyers and the headquarters in a different country. It's take it or leave it. Crossing stuff out with your pen or not handing in some documents might even get you sued for deception. Sure this is different for small companies without a big HR department that is hiring on a daily basis and without complicated legal department processes. There is a good chance they just skip the NDA/NSA if you object (seen it happen), when they think you are the best man for the job.
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    Trickery is negotiation by other means. These would not be an issue in the first place if we had a union, or a state legislature that cared about workers, or business managers with strong ethics. So many things already have to be going wrong for uncompensated non-competes to be common, that it hardly even matters what you do with them. If you really want/need the job, you just sign what they put in front of you, and then hope they don't find out when you inevitably reneg.

The main contract may have a clause it's only valid, if you also sign the NCA and NSA agreements. At least mine had.

by ascar 8y ago

The main contract may have a clause it's only valid, if you also sign the NCA and NSA agreements. At least mine had.

I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that any good one would advise you not to agree to anything you haven't read first. This is why you show contracts to lawyers before signing. You have to avoid unnecessary warranties, contingent agreements, hidden addendums, and other traps for the unwary. The contract should be the whole agreement, and ideally should also say that it is the whole agreement. Just cross that clause out with your pen, and if questioned, say that you haven't seen the documents they were trying to incorporate by reference. If they are contract terms, they can appear as clauses in the contract, and you should be able to negotiate reasonable compensation for them. Few companies have ever tried such trickery with me, but then again they have operated almost entirely without lengthy contracts--basically, just starting date, starting rate of pay, and the "at will" clause. Those that did push documents at me early enough got to see my editing pen. But my smartass resistance to their dubious documents never got me to an offer or a real negotiation, either. I am especially fond of crossing out the part of a background check clause that allows them to keep the 3rd-party report secret from me, while also sharing it with any other parties they please. Ordinarily, I'd just walk out, but I figure that crossing that part out puts the ball back in their court.

ascar 8y ago
Not sure why you jumped to trickery. I got them handed at the same time, actually in the same DocuSign pdf. They were basically an addendum mentioned in the contract that required a separate signature, even though the signing was required by the main work contract and non-optional. I guess it's just a way to create a better overview like we split stuff in multiple files in programming. The thing is you don't have much way to negotiate this stuff with companies of a certain size. It's done by their lawyer and everyone gets the same stuff. Just changing we wording on the relocation and signing bonus (because the original wording made absolutely no sense in my case) took over a week of mailing stuff between lawyers and the headquarters in a different country. It's take it or leave it. Crossing stuff out with your pen or not handing in some documents might even get you sued for deception. Sure this is different for small companies without a big HR department that is hiring on a daily basis and without complicated legal department processes. There is a good chance they just skip the NDA/NSA if you object (seen it happen), when they think you are the best man for the job.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  Trickery is negotiation by other means. These would not be an issue in the first place if we had a union, or a state legislature that cared about workers, or business managers with strong ethics. So many things already have to be going wrong for uncompensated non-competes to be common, that it hardly even matters what you do with them. If you really want/need the job, you just sign what they put in front of you, and then hope they don't find out when you inevitably reneg.