3 ms·

Good luck with that. I made an attempt at a novel (not during NaNo) where I had an intro situation/scene in my head and an idea at the ending, but that was it.

Good luck with that. I made an attempt at a novel (not during NaNo) where I had an intro situation/scene in my head and an idea at the ending, but that was it. Around 30k words I was in a hole I had no idea how to get out of, so I sidelined the story until I have the time/energy to go back and fix it, building a proper plot structure with an attempt at keeping as much of what I'd already written as possible. But it's low priority compared to NaNo and a series I've had in the back of my head for something like a year.

jonnathanson 16y ago
Agreed. Writing something as long-form as a novel without planning it out ahead of time is going to lead to frustration and, ultimately, a weaker final product. Would you build a house without a blueprint?
- runevault 16y ago
  If you a) have enough of a fundamental understanding of how to structure a story and b) are willing to do as many rewrites as it takes to tighten up the work and fill in small holes/do a better job of foreshadowing. Is it more work? Pretty much guaranteed. But for people who are incapable of writing with an outline (get bored or what have you) it CAN be done, but it ends up being significantly more work.
  - jonnathanson 16y ago
    There may be people out there more "capable" of writing without an outline than others, but would you bank on most neophytes' being those exceptions to the rule? I wouldn't. I would advise that most hobbyists or newbies stick to the techniques that have worked since as far back as the days of Aeschylus and Euripides. When you're Hemingway, feel free to break tradition and do your own thing. But assuming one is Hemingway before writing one's first novel is often a misguided assumption. You don't need to outline exhaustively, mind you, but some sort of architecture is probably advisable. It will make for a better story, which is ultimately what the exercise is supposed to be about. Too often, new writers forget that they're supposed to be writing for an audience, not for themselves.
    - runevault 16y ago
      I'm mostly leery of giving absolute advice. When I made the attempt it was explicitly to see how I would feel about trying long form fiction without a plan, in case it felt more "right" to me. Now I know going down that path is foolish for me personally, so instead I have returned to more extensive outlines (my NaNovel outline is a list of all the scenes and an indication of which plot thread(s) they primarily touch on).
    - jonnathanson 16y ago
      Understandable, and I don't mean to imply that there are absolutes applicable to everyone. Rather, I'm a believer in statistics. By far the majority of hobbyist writers will benefit from an outline. Also, I've found that overconfidence and newness to the hobby are correlated. So it's just a matter of saying to most beginners that they should strongly consider outlining. Not necessarily that everyone absolutely should be outlining, but rather, that it's a good starting place for most people. I suggest newbies try outlining before deciding categorically that they don't need to do so. That's all.
      - runevault 16y ago
        I've found in general people take advice better after going through with a choice and discovering it doesn't work :). Then they have a better appreciation for the alternatives and more willing to listen, especially when you can relate it to what they've already experienced.
        jonnathanson 16y ago
        Ain't that the truth, right? People need to experiment and figure out what works best for them. Perhaps it's for the best that some folks will give up after trying writing and not succeeding to their own expectations. And the ones who persist after a few initial setbacks may never go on to become great success stories -- but they'll have cultivated a personally enriching hobby, and the quality of their work will improve with practice.

jonnathanson 16y ago

Agreed. Writing something as long-form as a novel without planning it out ahead of time is going to lead to frustration and, ultimately, a weaker final product. Would you build a house without a blueprint?

runevault 16y ago
If you a) have enough of a fundamental understanding of how to structure a story and b) are willing to do as many rewrites as it takes to tighten up the work and fill in small holes/do a better job of foreshadowing. Is it more work? Pretty much guaranteed. But for people who are incapable of writing with an outline (get bored or what have you) it CAN be done, but it ends up being significantly more work.
- jonnathanson 16y ago
  There may be people out there more "capable" of writing without an outline than others, but would you bank on most neophytes' being those exceptions to the rule? I wouldn't. I would advise that most hobbyists or newbies stick to the techniques that have worked since as far back as the days of Aeschylus and Euripides. When you're Hemingway, feel free to break tradition and do your own thing. But assuming one is Hemingway before writing one's first novel is often a misguided assumption. You don't need to outline exhaustively, mind you, but some sort of architecture is probably advisable. It will make for a better story, which is ultimately what the exercise is supposed to be about. Too often, new writers forget that they're supposed to be writing for an audience, not for themselves.
  - runevault 16y ago
    I'm mostly leery of giving absolute advice. When I made the attempt it was explicitly to see how I would feel about trying long form fiction without a plan, in case it felt more "right" to me. Now I know going down that path is foolish for me personally, so instead I have returned to more extensive outlines (my NaNovel outline is a list of all the scenes and an indication of which plot thread(s) they primarily touch on).
  - jonnathanson 16y ago
    Understandable, and I don't mean to imply that there are absolutes applicable to everyone. Rather, I'm a believer in statistics. By far the majority of hobbyist writers will benefit from an outline. Also, I've found that overconfidence and newness to the hobby are correlated. So it's just a matter of saying to most beginners that they should strongly consider outlining. Not necessarily that everyone absolutely should be outlining, but rather, that it's a good starting place for most people. I suggest newbies try outlining before deciding categorically that they don't need to do so. That's all.
    - runevault 16y ago
      I've found in general people take advice better after going through with a choice and discovering it doesn't work :). Then they have a better appreciation for the alternatives and more willing to listen, especially when you can relate it to what they've already experienced.
      - jonnathanson 16y ago
        Ain't that the truth, right? People need to experiment and figure out what works best for them. Perhaps it's for the best that some folks will give up after trying writing and not succeeding to their own expectations. And the ones who persist after a few initial setbacks may never go on to become great success stories -- but they'll have cultivated a personally enriching hobby, and the quality of their work will improve with practice.