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> A few will say that Iran is threatening Middle East Peace. That is widely agree upon largely due to Iran's shipment of weapons and financing of external mili

> A few will say that Iran is threatening Middle East Peace. That is widely agree upon largely due to Iran's shipment of weapons and financing of external militant groups actively engaged in various conflicts. I am currently in the Middle East due to one or more of these conflicts. I am not stating any opinion for or against the recent (now ignored) agreement. > What is even wrong for the US is punishing foreign companies wanting to do business in Iran. That is a gross over simplification of how the complexities of global trade does not always align with the interests of international politics. It is within the capabilities of one nation to impose laws that forbid trade and supply to another nation while trading with third party nations trading contingent upon that awareness.

Down_n_Out 8y ago
> That is widely agree upon largely due to Iran's shipment of weapons and financing of external militant groups actively engaged in various conflicts. Where is your proof on this? Where is all of the proof on any of the things claimed about Iran? Just like there were mass destructive weapons in Irak?? Sure, we know how that turned out. It's time for big ol' USA to just stop meddling in affairs it has no business in. They just want to get their hands on all the oil in the world so they can play the boss, and it most likely is not going to stop there either, next it's water, the market, and so on. The USA is just a big bully, it's their way or not at all. And Europe is like the bully's accomplice, too scared to stand up so just joins along in the bullying. Pathetic, more more more, it's always more they want. Protecting the peace, ha, joke. And while we are at it, let's forgive Saudi Arabia for obviously brutally murdering a journalist, afterall, they just invested millions on some of our weapons. Farce.
- austincheney 8y ago
  If you were really interested in evidence I am sure you wouldn't have any trouble finding it yourself.
  - Down_n_Out 8y ago
    I'm asking evidence of people claiming things without any proof. And yes, I can find my own evidence, hence my question. How is your comment any relevant?
    - austincheney 8y ago
      Then just say you disagree.
- htpttoe18 8y ago
  > Where is your proof on this? Not proof but it seems an academic exercise. How would they not ally with some enemies of their enemy? With their neighbors invaded, arms and support for rebel groups and threats, constantly pouring in from the other side of the planet, how could they stay out of trouble and not develop weapon systems and allies? There's no carrot for these supposedly crazed nations, well Libya was approached and disarmed...
- torstenvl 8y ago
  The evidence exists if you care to look. Most of it is in the way of first-hand accounts, however. Seeing as how this particular forum lacks a subpoena power over defected Shi'ite militia members, I have no way of directly presenting you the evidence. Indirectly, however, you'll find the Internet is pretty replete. You can start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro... Given the strident tone of your post, I suspect you'll dismiss those sources. No doubt you'll suspect them of being self-serving. Very well. Evidence of Iran's doings also exists in forms which cut against the U.S. military's interest, such as the fact that they duped the U.S. military into violating U.S. law by providing them weapons. https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Is-the-US-supporting-Iranian-backed-militias-in-Iraq-514353 https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Is-the-US-supporting-Irani... https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2017/9/4/how-iraqi-militias-got-hold-of-american-tanks https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2017/9/4/how-iraqi... https://abcnews.go.com/International/dirty-brigades-us-trained-iraqi-forces-investigated-war/story?id=29193253 https://abcnews.go.com/International/dirty-brigades-us-train... The fact is that Iranian-sponsored terrorism is so prevalent in the Middle East, particularly in Iraq, that just defeating Daesh is a moral problem... it's become a logistical nightmare to not only perform Leahy vetting but to actually carry out operations without a Shi'ite militia taking part and committing atrocities in the name of the Coalition. And those Shi'ite militias? "All are directly backed by Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Corps and are notorious among the Sunni minority population for carrying out extrajudicial killings, torture and ethnic cleansing." https://www.thedailybeast.com/iraqs-shia-militias-accused-of-war-crimes-in-fight-against-isis https://www.thedailybeast.com/iraqs-shia-militias-accused-of... ---------- You are entitled to your opinion that the "USA is just a big bully," although I personally don't think it's a well-founded opinion. However, the next time you feel inclined to start calling things a "farce" before you've examined any evidence, I'd encourage you to reconsider.
  - kaveh_h 8y ago
    And you think it’s just of US to sell weapons to a authoritarian murderous regime like SA? Previously Saddam in Iraq? And also the Afghan fundamentalists during Russian and Afghanistan war? Eventually US went to war with both Iraq and Afghanistan with the same leadership they supported earlier. The Shia militias your talking about is no better nor worse than the kind of people both US and SA and other gulf countries have supported in the region. You think ISIS could have existed without certain external help in the ME? The question is not if Iran is bad they clearly are, but they are not worse than the rest of the regional powers also not worse compared to US given it’s track record in both supporting totalitarian leaders and fundamentalists.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
fpoling 8y ago
Saudi Arabia is known to finance Wahhabism groups around the world, its books for children say it is ok to kill non-Muslims and even Muslims of the “wrong kind”, the terorist behind 9/1/1 were from the country, ISIS got its money from SA and the country is engaged in mayor war in the Middle East. Yet SA is a friend of US and many western countries.
- austincheney 8y ago
  I don't believe this thread is about Saudi Arabia.
  - AsyncAwait 8y ago
    So does imposing sanctions have any consistent basis or framework in the U.S? I believe that is very relevant here, because if not, it's basically being a bully.
    - DataWorker 8y ago
      Reducing international relations to schoolyard concepts like “bullying” leads to a child’s understanding of something that’s actually quite complex.
      - AsyncAwait 8y ago
        The U.S. has a history of regime change and subversive actions in every country that does not completely open its markets to it. Whatever you want to call it, it often punishes such countries by imposing sanctions, backing coups etc. because as the world's sole superpower it knows it can do so. When a significantly more dominant part uses the power it knows it has over other parties to try to get its way, it is indeed buying, or any other synonym describing the same principle you may want to use. Attempting to impose much greater intricacies to every single issue is rarely the right call.

Down_n_Out 8y ago

> That is widely agree upon largely due to Iran's shipment of weapons and financing of external militant groups actively engaged in various conflicts. Where is your proof on this? Where is all of the proof on any of the things claimed about Iran? Just like there were mass destructive weapons in Irak?? Sure, we know how that turned out. It's time for big ol' USA to just stop meddling in affairs it has no business in. They just want to get their hands on all the oil in the world so they can play the boss, and it most likely is not going to stop there either, next it's water, the market, and so on. The USA is just a big bully, it's their way or not at all. And Europe is like the bully's accomplice, too scared to stand up so just joins along in the bullying. Pathetic, more more more, it's always more they want. Protecting the peace, ha, joke. And while we are at it, let's forgive Saudi Arabia for obviously brutally murdering a journalist, afterall, they just invested millions on some of our weapons. Farce.

austincheney 8y ago
If you were really interested in evidence I am sure you wouldn't have any trouble finding it yourself.
- Down_n_Out 8y ago
  I'm asking evidence of people claiming things without any proof. And yes, I can find my own evidence, hence my question. How is your comment any relevant?
  - austincheney 8y ago
    Then just say you disagree.
htpttoe18 8y ago
> Where is your proof on this? Not proof but it seems an academic exercise. How would they not ally with some enemies of their enemy? With their neighbors invaded, arms and support for rebel groups and threats, constantly pouring in from the other side of the planet, how could they stay out of trouble and not develop weapon systems and allies? There's no carrot for these supposedly crazed nations, well Libya was approached and disarmed...
torstenvl 8y ago
The evidence exists if you care to look. Most of it is in the way of first-hand accounts, however. Seeing as how this particular forum lacks a subpoena power over defected Shi'ite militia members, I have no way of directly presenting you the evidence. Indirectly, however, you'll find the Internet is pretty replete. You can start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro... Given the strident tone of your post, I suspect you'll dismiss those sources. No doubt you'll suspect them of being self-serving. Very well. Evidence of Iran's doings also exists in forms which cut against the U.S. military's interest, such as the fact that they duped the U.S. military into violating U.S. law by providing them weapons. https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Is-the-US-supporting-Iranian-backed-militias-in-Iraq-514353 https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Is-the-US-supporting-Irani... https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2017/9/4/how-iraqi-militias-got-hold-of-american-tanks https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2017/9/4/how-iraqi... https://abcnews.go.com/International/dirty-brigades-us-trained-iraqi-forces-investigated-war/story?id=29193253 https://abcnews.go.com/International/dirty-brigades-us-train... The fact is that Iranian-sponsored terrorism is so prevalent in the Middle East, particularly in Iraq, that just defeating Daesh is a moral problem... it's become a logistical nightmare to not only perform Leahy vetting but to actually carry out operations without a Shi'ite militia taking part and committing atrocities in the name of the Coalition. And those Shi'ite militias? "All are directly backed by Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Corps and are notorious among the Sunni minority population for carrying out extrajudicial killings, torture and ethnic cleansing." https://www.thedailybeast.com/iraqs-shia-militias-accused-of-war-crimes-in-fight-against-isis https://www.thedailybeast.com/iraqs-shia-militias-accused-of... ---------- You are entitled to your opinion that the "USA is just a big bully," although I personally don't think it's a well-founded opinion. However, the next time you feel inclined to start calling things a "farce" before you've examined any evidence, I'd encourage you to reconsider.
- kaveh_h 8y ago
  And you think it’s just of US to sell weapons to a authoritarian murderous regime like SA? Previously Saddam in Iraq? And also the Afghan fundamentalists during Russian and Afghanistan war? Eventually US went to war with both Iraq and Afghanistan with the same leadership they supported earlier. The Shia militias your talking about is no better nor worse than the kind of people both US and SA and other gulf countries have supported in the region. You think ISIS could have existed without certain external help in the ME? The question is not if Iran is bad they clearly are, but they are not worse than the rest of the regional powers also not worse compared to US given it’s track record in both supporting totalitarian leaders and fundamentalists.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

fpoling 8y ago

Saudi Arabia is known to finance Wahhabism groups around the world, its books for children say it is ok to kill non-Muslims and even Muslims of the “wrong kind”, the terorist behind 9/1/1 were from the country, ISIS got its money from SA and the country is engaged in mayor war in the Middle East. Yet SA is a friend of US and many western countries.

austincheney 8y ago
I don't believe this thread is about Saudi Arabia.
- AsyncAwait 8y ago
  So does imposing sanctions have any consistent basis or framework in the U.S? I believe that is very relevant here, because if not, it's basically being a bully.
  - DataWorker 8y ago
    Reducing international relations to schoolyard concepts like “bullying” leads to a child’s understanding of something that’s actually quite complex.
    - AsyncAwait 8y ago
      The U.S. has a history of regime change and subversive actions in every country that does not completely open its markets to it. Whatever you want to call it, it often punishes such countries by imposing sanctions, backing coups etc. because as the world's sole superpower it knows it can do so. When a significantly more dominant part uses the power it knows it has over other parties to try to get its way, it is indeed buying, or any other synonym describing the same principle you may want to use. Attempting to impose much greater intricacies to every single issue is rarely the right call.