4 ms·

It's sad how this has become a fact because it's insinuated enough times in the press by the same few reporters. First it was Chinese foreigners buying up all t

by msie 8y ago

It's sad how this has become a fact because it's insinuated enough times in the press by the same few reporters. First it was Chinese foreigners buying up all the real estate, but that was proven false. Now, it's all these foreigners are laundering their money. Yes, a few (although the RCMP is having trouble with their money laundering case) but not all. The press simplifies and that becomes the reality that everyone believes. I had a coworker mention this "fact" after hearing it on the radio. Ugh. Reminds me of the weapons of mass destruction debacle.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
cauldron 8y ago
Just to remind you that a 1000 something square ft apartment in Shanghai's perimeters costs like 5 million rmb, that's 50 times the average income there, and in better areas, it easily costs 10 or 20 millions plus. Think about it.
DenisM 8y ago
> First it was Chinese foreigners buying up all the real estate, but that was proven false. How was it proven false?
- xapata 8y ago
  The market impact appears to be negligible. At least not as large as factor as implied or popularly claimed.
  - vtesucks 8y ago
    To convey the spirit of your parent, is there any credible source? Remember china has a huge media manipulation budget.
    - xapata 8y ago
      Is there any credible source the other way around? How many foreign nationals own property in Vancouver? How many of those properties are unoccupied? I can't remember where I spotted reporting on those two questions, but I wouldn't be surprised if the city publishes real estate transaction data such that the number of foreign purchases can be gathered. I remember a very small portion reported.
      - parthdesai 8y ago
        Google is your friend. Metro Vancouver has 9.2% of unoccupied homes and Vancouver itself has 8.2%, them being highest and second highest in Canada. Chinese drug mafia also allegedly moved more than $5bn through flipping properties in Vancouver. https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/06/24/in-one-of-west-vancouvers-nicest-neighbourhoods-nobodys-home-except-dust-bunnies-and-raccoons.html https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/06/24/in-one-of-west-...
        xapata 8y ago
        It's strange that owners would let the homes go vacant rather than rent them via a property manager. While the article seemed well-researched, one missing bit was who purchased the mansions they kept mentioning. They knew the builder, so perhaps they could have asked.
        parthdesai 8y ago
        Is it though? Some of them just want to move their money outside of China incase something happens and they don't really care about anything else. While renting them via a property manager is a better financial decision, i'm don't know if you they care about it that much they are paying $x above asking price. Also, this might be their vacation home.
        xapata 8y ago
        Yes, making a poor financial decision is strange when it's so easy (on the face of it) to make a better choice.
parthdesai 8y ago
Though it's not. There is a property management company out of Hong Kong/China that owns 30 condos in my unit and rents it out to tenants. I work near One Bloor and if you see the demographic over there it's all non-english speaking Asian people. Heck the Nordstorm rack in that Condo accepts WePay. Where else have you seen that in Toronto?
- hamstercat 8y ago
  All statistics point to it being false. From the financial post (https://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/perception-of-foreign-ownership-heavily-influences-housing-prices-cmhc https://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/perception-of...): A study from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation released Wednesday found that 68 per cent of Vancouver respondents, 48 per cent of Toronto respondents and 42 per cent of Montreal respondents believe foreign buyers are having "a lot of influence" on their markets and are driving up home prices. The insight into perceptions around foreign buyers that 30,000 respondents in the three cities shared with the Crown Corporation between September and mid-October is in stark contrast with recent data from Statistics Canada showing foreign buyers only own 4.8 per cent of Vancouver properties and 3.4 per cent of homes in Toronto. ---- The truth is that we're house horny enough to not need any outside help to increase the price of real estate. According to Statistics Canada, 69.0% of households are owner (https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-014-x/99-014-x2011002-eng.cfm https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-014-x/99-0...). While anecdotal data can be comforting, the data doesn't support the thesis.
  - xapata 8y ago
    While I'm sympathetic to the claim that foreign buyers didn't influence the price significantly, the ~5% ownership figure is surprisingly high. I wonder what portion it is in other cities, ones that aren't complaining.
  - parthdesai 8y ago
    So i read the highlights of the statcan link you posted. a) it's from 2011, that's 7 years ago. b) Just being house owners doesn't mean a lot. There are non-Canadians (neither PR nor Citizens) buying condo's/houses with 35+% downpayment. Our government allows that, which is kind of mind boggling. You'll see a lot of international students living in condo's that their parents have bought. I know this is unrelated point, but also effing Airbnb has screwed up the market for renters/first time home buyers.

by msie 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

cauldron 8y ago

Just to remind you that a 1000 something square ft apartment in Shanghai's perimeters costs like 5 million rmb, that's 50 times the average income there, and in better areas, it easily costs 10 or 20 millions plus. Think about it.

DenisM 8y ago

> First it was Chinese foreigners buying up all the real estate, but that was proven false. How was it proven false?

xapata 8y ago
The market impact appears to be negligible. At least not as large as factor as implied or popularly claimed.
- vtesucks 8y ago
  To convey the spirit of your parent, is there any credible source? Remember china has a huge media manipulation budget.
  - xapata 8y ago
    Is there any credible source the other way around? How many foreign nationals own property in Vancouver? How many of those properties are unoccupied? I can't remember where I spotted reporting on those two questions, but I wouldn't be surprised if the city publishes real estate transaction data such that the number of foreign purchases can be gathered. I remember a very small portion reported.
    - parthdesai 8y ago
      Google is your friend. Metro Vancouver has 9.2% of unoccupied homes and Vancouver itself has 8.2%, them being highest and second highest in Canada. Chinese drug mafia also allegedly moved more than $5bn through flipping properties in Vancouver. https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/06/24/in-one-of-west-vancouvers-nicest-neighbourhoods-nobodys-home-except-dust-bunnies-and-raccoons.html https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/06/24/in-one-of-west-...
      - xapata 8y ago
        It's strange that owners would let the homes go vacant rather than rent them via a property manager. While the article seemed well-researched, one missing bit was who purchased the mansions they kept mentioning. They knew the builder, so perhaps they could have asked.
        parthdesai 8y ago
        Is it though? Some of them just want to move their money outside of China incase something happens and they don't really care about anything else. While renting them via a property manager is a better financial decision, i'm don't know if you they care about it that much they are paying $x above asking price. Also, this might be their vacation home.
        xapata 8y ago
        Yes, making a poor financial decision is strange when it's so easy (on the face of it) to make a better choice.

parthdesai 8y ago

Though it's not. There is a property management company out of Hong Kong/China that owns 30 condos in my unit and rents it out to tenants. I work near One Bloor and if you see the demographic over there it's all non-english speaking Asian people. Heck the Nordstorm rack in that Condo accepts WePay. Where else have you seen that in Toronto?

hamstercat 8y ago
All statistics point to it being false. From the financial post (https://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/perception-of-foreign-ownership-heavily-influences-housing-prices-cmhc https://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/perception-of...): A study from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation released Wednesday found that 68 per cent of Vancouver respondents, 48 per cent of Toronto respondents and 42 per cent of Montreal respondents believe foreign buyers are having "a lot of influence" on their markets and are driving up home prices. The insight into perceptions around foreign buyers that 30,000 respondents in the three cities shared with the Crown Corporation between September and mid-October is in stark contrast with recent data from Statistics Canada showing foreign buyers only own 4.8 per cent of Vancouver properties and 3.4 per cent of homes in Toronto. ---- The truth is that we're house horny enough to not need any outside help to increase the price of real estate. According to Statistics Canada, 69.0% of households are owner (https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-014-x/99-014-x2011002-eng.cfm https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-014-x/99-0...). While anecdotal data can be comforting, the data doesn't support the thesis.
- xapata 8y ago
  While I'm sympathetic to the claim that foreign buyers didn't influence the price significantly, the ~5% ownership figure is surprisingly high. I wonder what portion it is in other cities, ones that aren't complaining.
- parthdesai 8y ago
  So i read the highlights of the statcan link you posted. a) it's from 2011, that's 7 years ago. b) Just being house owners doesn't mean a lot. There are non-Canadians (neither PR nor Citizens) buying condo's/houses with 35+% downpayment. Our government allows that, which is kind of mind boggling. You'll see a lot of international students living in condo's that their parents have bought. I know this is unrelated point, but also effing Airbnb has screwed up the market for renters/first time home buyers.