7 ms·

My answer to the military. As soon as you stop spying on us, stop compromising corporate networks, and stop lying to our government about doing these things, t

by btilly 8y ago

My answer to the military. As soon as you stop spying on us, stop compromising corporate networks, and stop lying to our government about doing these things, then we can discuss whose side you are on. As long as you're still doing all that, you're not on our side. That also doesn't mean we're on your opponent's side either. This isn't a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Yes, the other guy is worse, but that isn't an excuse for your undermining the values that are supposed to make this country worth supporting. Do you want to know how to change my mind? Here is how. Invite Snowden home. Give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Discontinue all of the domestic spying programs that he identified AND their successors. Do that, then we'll talk.

pmarreck 8y ago
Everyone's a pacifist until someone threatens their kids or punches them in the face. Everyone's a privacy-rights advocate until decentralized terrorist cells have infiltrated the country and done it grave harm, or when any other kind of bad-actor is at work inside the country in secret, working to destabilize it. Everyone's against defense lawyers until they get falsely accused of a crime. Everyone's against atheists until someone acts against them in the name of religion. Everyone's pro-whistleblower until a Snowden comes along and shows us the shameful truth that we cannot even uphold our own ideals towards our own selves. Everyone's anti-politics until an Orange-in-Chief gets elected right beneath the nose of everyone assuming our first female commander-in-chief was in the bag. The totalitarian Chinese government is arguably, ethically, and rationally worse than the US government, and as of 2 years ago, their country has already passed our GDP. If you don't want a future Chinese hegemony, then support the country and its military and don't provide China with censored search engine technology or support endeavours like that which aid an ethically-inferior system.
- darkarmani 8y ago
  > And if you don't think we're the good guys (or at least, that we are far better guys than the alternatives like China), then please just move there. How would moving there make the US the good guys? Doesn't that just raise the concentration of people here that condone doing the wrong thing?
  - pmarreck 8y ago
    “Good” is relative I guess
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- knight-of-lambd 8y ago
  Everyone is for due process until a serial killer gets their family. Everyone is for human rights until they see brigands and warlords torturing, raping, and pillaging across the countryside. The world is cruel. Therefore we should value nothing, and cherish nothing. If you don't agree with this line of thinking, stop talking and be silent.
  - time-domain0 8y ago
    The ideology you're promoting is the essence of fascism. Instead of changing based on what other people do, maybe you should have some integrity and self-control rather than advocating censorship and force. Otherwise, you're an animal and you've given up on civilization.
  - lihaciudaniel 8y ago
    Correspondence bais alert?!?!
- happytoexplain 8y ago
  I find most items on your list, though poetic, unrealistic in practice. People are prone to such situational hypocrisy in general, yes, but your examples seem mostly like oversimplified rhetoric, with privacy-vs-domestic-security being the only one that approaches being generally representative, in my experience. These perceptions are easy to form though, since we tend to view entire groups at once, so different people acting differently within that group, or speaking more or less loudly at different times, may create the appearance of internal conflict when those different people really make no claims to represent each other, despite being part of the larger whole that we observe. Therefore, these reductions tend to come dangerously close to holier-than-thou territory. I also find the sentiments "support our damn military" and "if you don't think we're the good guys, then move out" to be hostile twists on statements nobody made, and more likely to cultivate opposition to your assertions than to make anybody think twice about them. Totally agree about China though.
  - pmarreck 8y ago
    Fair enough, adjusted some wording

by btilly 8y ago

pmarreck 8y ago

Everyone's a pacifist until someone threatens their kids or punches them in the face. Everyone's a privacy-rights advocate until decentralized terrorist cells have infiltrated the country and done it grave harm, or when any other kind of bad-actor is at work inside the country in secret, working to destabilize it. Everyone's against defense lawyers until they get falsely accused of a crime. Everyone's against atheists until someone acts against them in the name of religion. Everyone's pro-whistleblower until a Snowden comes along and shows us the shameful truth that we cannot even uphold our own ideals towards our own selves. Everyone's anti-politics until an Orange-in-Chief gets elected right beneath the nose of everyone assuming our first female commander-in-chief was in the bag. The totalitarian Chinese government is arguably, ethically, and rationally worse than the US government, and as of 2 years ago, their country has already passed our GDP. If you don't want a future Chinese hegemony, then support the country and its military and don't provide China with censored search engine technology or support endeavours like that which aid an ethically-inferior system.

darkarmani 8y ago
> And if you don't think we're the good guys (or at least, that we are far better guys than the alternatives like China), then please just move there. How would moving there make the US the good guys? Doesn't that just raise the concentration of people here that condone doing the wrong thing?
- pmarreck 8y ago
  “Good” is relative I guess
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
knight-of-lambd 8y ago
Everyone is for due process until a serial killer gets their family. Everyone is for human rights until they see brigands and warlords torturing, raping, and pillaging across the countryside. The world is cruel. Therefore we should value nothing, and cherish nothing. If you don't agree with this line of thinking, stop talking and be silent.
- time-domain0 8y ago
  The ideology you're promoting is the essence of fascism. Instead of changing based on what other people do, maybe you should have some integrity and self-control rather than advocating censorship and force. Otherwise, you're an animal and you've given up on civilization.
- lihaciudaniel 8y ago
  Correspondence bais alert?!?!
happytoexplain 8y ago
I find most items on your list, though poetic, unrealistic in practice. People are prone to such situational hypocrisy in general, yes, but your examples seem mostly like oversimplified rhetoric, with privacy-vs-domestic-security being the only one that approaches being generally representative, in my experience. These perceptions are easy to form though, since we tend to view entire groups at once, so different people acting differently within that group, or speaking more or less loudly at different times, may create the appearance of internal conflict when those different people really make no claims to represent each other, despite being part of the larger whole that we observe. Therefore, these reductions tend to come dangerously close to holier-than-thou territory. I also find the sentiments "support our damn military" and "if you don't think we're the good guys, then move out" to be hostile twists on statements nobody made, and more likely to cultivate opposition to your assertions than to make anybody think twice about them. Totally agree about China though.
- pmarreck 8y ago
  Fair enough, adjusted some wording