4 ms·

Well, that's easy: I pick the side of "stop fighting stupid imperial wars already". There is nothing which obligates "us" to be at war, to whatever degree the U

Well, that's easy: I pick the side of "stop fighting stupid imperial wars already". There is nothing which obligates "us" to be at war, to whatever degree the United States represents any sort of a coherent "us" at this point.

mc32 8y ago
I think the present admin is trying to disengage from international conflicts --but there are others in government who believe the US should champion and ensure that our style of government should be protected around the world, not just the US. That said, the US, and our rivals can't allow the other to surpass it lest we cede our advantage and ability to offer support for western-style governments. Wishing for the world to be nice will end in disappointment.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  Eh, doesn't match US actions. Our most popular ally this month is effectively a monarchy. We aren't 'defending our way of government', we are 'defending' our economic, religious, and ethnic interests.
  - mc32 8y ago
    SA is not our most favorite ally, but it also doesn’t make sense to blow the incident out of proportion. When the current admin talked tough about NKorea, you had people on the left sympathetic and outraged that the current admin would be outraged by what NKorea was doing. I mean if someone deserves being overthrown it’s thst regime. Point is it’s theatrical to be upset at them given much worse goes on in other countries that media hardly cover.
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      I purposefully did not say "most favorite ally", because that would not be correct.
- anonymous5133 8y ago
  Yes, that's the argument they make. It is this whole dumbed down duality of "us VS them" that encourages people to engage in petty conflicts. It is a waste of time. Self-sacrifice for the benefit of a government is a complete waste of time. They say there are benefits and the such but there are none. We should be striving for basic tenants that all humans should have.
anonymous5133 8y ago
Completely agree. They say pick a side? I say to side with humanity and to oppose people who engage in geo-political conflicts between nations.
Junk_Collector 8y ago
The title is provocative and not indicative of the article as a whole. I think this line from the article is a much better summary of the author's point, "This is not about doing something that’s unethical, illegal or immoral. This is about ensuring that we collectively can defend the values for which we stand. I have a hard time with companies that are working very hard to engage in the market inside China then don’t want to work with the U.S. military."
- code_beers 8y ago
  That’s such a red herring argument, and based solely on current headlines about Google. And Project Dragonfly is generating PLENTY of protest of its own.
  - Junk_Collector 8y ago
    The article is an opinion piece specifically about Google's decision to pull support from DoD projects while choosing to engage in other projects within China. Of course they talk about Project Dragonfly and they also talk about Google's new AI China center and China's "civil-military fusion" strategy.
    - code_beers 8y ago
      Interesting, thank you for the details.
xfitm3 8y ago
Doesn’t military spending have a positive effects on the economy?
- anonymous5133 8y ago
  If you are looking at pure economic activity then yes but all economic activity must be viewed based on "quality" of said activity. Do we want people spending time and resources building weapons of mass destruction or do we want that economic activity going towards exploring outer space, developing new technologies that benefit humanity positively and so on. Unfortunately, it is mutually exclusive because Earth only has so much "potential" human ability so we must determine where that human potential is being used.
  - Junk_Collector 8y ago
    It's hardly mutually exclusive. Many military problems are simply human problems and because of their low tolerance for error, military systems are often very good solutions that provide large non-military benefits. The DoD needed a better way to navigate, so they invented GPS. They needed more robust communications, so they funded the internet. They needed to predict the weather to plan operations, so they funded weather radar and satellites. Even the US interstate system was supported in large part because the military wanted to have fast easy cross country logistics.
- albemuth 8y ago
  I guess that takes care of any moral qualms anyone could have.
- zeroname 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
bassman9000 8y ago
Wars are coming at you, either you like it or not, because not everyone in the world shares your values, and some are willing to go really far to impose their incompatible ones over yours.
- marssaxman 8y ago
  I live in Cascadia. There are no wars coming at me. There is no nation in the world remotely capable of sending an invasion force here, and the impact of terrorism remains statistically negligible provided one keeps one's head and doesn't allow oneself to be baited into unnecessary foreign adventures as the US did after the events of 2001.
  - bassman9000 8y ago
    There is no nation in the world remotely capable of sending an invasion force here Famous last words. Well, good for you. Worst enemy usually comes from within, though.

mc32 8y ago

I think the present admin is trying to disengage from international conflicts --but there are others in government who believe the US should champion and ensure that our style of government should be protected around the world, not just the US. That said, the US, and our rivals can't allow the other to surpass it lest we cede our advantage and ability to offer support for western-style governments. Wishing for the world to be nice will end in disappointment.

craftyguy 8y ago
Eh, doesn't match US actions. Our most popular ally this month is effectively a monarchy. We aren't 'defending our way of government', we are 'defending' our economic, religious, and ethnic interests.
- mc32 8y ago
  SA is not our most favorite ally, but it also doesn’t make sense to blow the incident out of proportion. When the current admin talked tough about NKorea, you had people on the left sympathetic and outraged that the current admin would be outraged by what NKorea was doing. I mean if someone deserves being overthrown it’s thst regime. Point is it’s theatrical to be upset at them given much worse goes on in other countries that media hardly cover.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    I purposefully did not say "most favorite ally", because that would not be correct.
anonymous5133 8y ago
Yes, that's the argument they make. It is this whole dumbed down duality of "us VS them" that encourages people to engage in petty conflicts. It is a waste of time. Self-sacrifice for the benefit of a government is a complete waste of time. They say there are benefits and the such but there are none. We should be striving for basic tenants that all humans should have.

anonymous5133 8y ago

Completely agree. They say pick a side? I say to side with humanity and to oppose people who engage in geo-political conflicts between nations.

Junk_Collector 8y ago

The title is provocative and not indicative of the article as a whole. I think this line from the article is a much better summary of the author's point, "This is not about doing something that’s unethical, illegal or immoral. This is about ensuring that we collectively can defend the values for which we stand. I have a hard time with companies that are working very hard to engage in the market inside China then don’t want to work with the U.S. military."

code_beers 8y ago
That’s such a red herring argument, and based solely on current headlines about Google. And Project Dragonfly is generating PLENTY of protest of its own.
- Junk_Collector 8y ago
  The article is an opinion piece specifically about Google's decision to pull support from DoD projects while choosing to engage in other projects within China. Of course they talk about Project Dragonfly and they also talk about Google's new AI China center and China's "civil-military fusion" strategy.
  - code_beers 8y ago
    Interesting, thank you for the details.

xfitm3 8y ago

Doesn’t military spending have a positive effects on the economy?

anonymous5133 8y ago
If you are looking at pure economic activity then yes but all economic activity must be viewed based on "quality" of said activity. Do we want people spending time and resources building weapons of mass destruction or do we want that economic activity going towards exploring outer space, developing new technologies that benefit humanity positively and so on. Unfortunately, it is mutually exclusive because Earth only has so much "potential" human ability so we must determine where that human potential is being used.
- Junk_Collector 8y ago
  It's hardly mutually exclusive. Many military problems are simply human problems and because of their low tolerance for error, military systems are often very good solutions that provide large non-military benefits. The DoD needed a better way to navigate, so they invented GPS. They needed more robust communications, so they funded the internet. They needed to predict the weather to plan operations, so they funded weather radar and satellites. Even the US interstate system was supported in large part because the military wanted to have fast easy cross country logistics.
albemuth 8y ago
I guess that takes care of any moral qualms anyone could have.
zeroname 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

bassman9000 8y ago

Wars are coming at you, either you like it or not, because not everyone in the world shares your values, and some are willing to go really far to impose their incompatible ones over yours.

marssaxman 8y ago
I live in Cascadia. There are no wars coming at me. There is no nation in the world remotely capable of sending an invasion force here, and the impact of terrorism remains statistically negligible provided one keeps one's head and doesn't allow oneself to be baited into unnecessary foreign adventures as the US did after the events of 2001.
- bassman9000 8y ago
  There is no nation in the world remotely capable of sending an invasion force here Famous last words. Well, good for you. Worst enemy usually comes from within, though.