4 ms·

Are we just going to pretend that christian morality (in the general sense) doesn't exist and lots of people don't follow that morality? I don't see how that's

by newen 8y ago

Are we just going to pretend that christian morality (in the general sense) doesn't exist and lots of people don't follow that morality? I don't see how that's a stretch unless you pretend that the morality of whole swathes of people are not valid because you have another set of morals. It's not a huge stretch at all.

pixl97 8y ago
Ones morality is the justification for every atrocity. I'll assume every morality is invalid. Instead base ones intent on the harms their actions cause.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > I'll assume every morality is invalid. Instead base ones intent on the harms their actions cause. Assessment of harms depends on a value system; you can't escape the need to choose a morality.
  - pixl97 8y ago
    The problem comes not from assuming your chosen morality is wrong, but from demanding that your morality is right. When your choice of morality affects more then a few close people, it is by definition unjust.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
Millions of people believing something does not automatically make that thing correct. "Prostitution is a sign of the degradation of society" is a claim that requires evidence. I'm happy to hear whatever evidence you have. "Lots of other people think so" is not evidence. Given that prostitution has existed in pretty much every historical culture we've been able to study, I'd like to know when and where the society that they all degraded from can be found. (Incidentally, there's plenty of historical pornography as well, dating back at least to Rome IIRC, although of course it didn't really blow up until photographic reproduction became cheap and easy.)
- ryacko 8y ago
  Ask a whore, is she treated kindly by all her johns? Is she respected by everyone? And are childless, unmarried women depressed and unwanted? Migrant labor is not a sign of degradation either, but it leads to many to disrespect others in increasing fashions, where men are more likely to abuse their power over others.
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    Sure, there are a lot of labor/social issues around prostitution. We should try to fix those instead of sweeping them under the rug as we currently do. That's irrelevant to the claim "prostitution is a sign of the degradation of society."
fjsolwmv 8y ago
Perhaps Christianity is the degradation of society. The United States was founded with an explicit attempt to get religion out of government, until the Great Awakening gave a rebirth to a cancer in our democracy. Even conservative Republicans like the Reagan/Bush team were terrified of the influence of the radical Christian movement.

by newen 8y ago

pixl97 8y ago

Ones morality is the justification for every atrocity. I'll assume every morality is invalid. Instead base ones intent on the harms their actions cause.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> I'll assume every morality is invalid. Instead base ones intent on the harms their actions cause. Assessment of harms depends on a value system; you can't escape the need to choose a morality.
- pixl97 8y ago
  The problem comes not from assuming your chosen morality is wrong, but from demanding that your morality is right. When your choice of morality affects more then a few close people, it is by definition unjust.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

Millions of people believing something does not automatically make that thing correct. "Prostitution is a sign of the degradation of society" is a claim that requires evidence. I'm happy to hear whatever evidence you have. "Lots of other people think so" is not evidence. Given that prostitution has existed in pretty much every historical culture we've been able to study, I'd like to know when and where the society that they all degraded from can be found. (Incidentally, there's plenty of historical pornography as well, dating back at least to Rome IIRC, although of course it didn't really blow up until photographic reproduction became cheap and easy.)

ryacko 8y ago
Ask a whore, is she treated kindly by all her johns? Is she respected by everyone? And are childless, unmarried women depressed and unwanted? Migrant labor is not a sign of degradation either, but it leads to many to disrespect others in increasing fashions, where men are more likely to abuse their power over others.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  Sure, there are a lot of labor/social issues around prostitution. We should try to fix those instead of sweeping them under the rug as we currently do. That's irrelevant to the claim "prostitution is a sign of the degradation of society."

fjsolwmv 8y ago

Perhaps Christianity is the degradation of society. The United States was founded with an explicit attempt to get religion out of government, until the Great Awakening gave a rebirth to a cancer in our democracy. Even conservative Republicans like the Reagan/Bush team were terrified of the influence of the radical Christian movement.