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Who's obsessed with food: someone who eats three times a day or someone who tries not to eat at all? A society with a healthy attitude towards sex will have pro

Who's obsessed with food: someone who eats three times a day or someone who tries not to eat at all? A society with a healthy attitude towards sex will have prostitution and pornography, because sex is normal and part of being human. I would say that a society obsessed with repressing sexuality has issues.

newen 8y ago
That's a terrible argument. I know plenty of fat people who eat three times a day and are obsessed with food. And I'm sure there are lots of skinny people who eat twice a day and don't think about food that much. I have gone weeks like that. Women who do prostitution and pornography do so because they have few choices. Prostitution and pornography are also markers for human trafficking. Because both prostitution and pornography are avenues for exploitation of women, they contribute to the degradation of society. I don't particularly care for the argument of women being free to choose because most women in the two industries have few other choices and so are abused and exploited. Also, banning something does reduce its usage. Its usage moves to the more criminal element of society but it does reduce its usage among the wider population and media; see guns, drugs, etc. And let's not pretend like media has no influence on people. Whatever is shown in media becomes normalized quickly. Most people look at media (i.e. other people) for what constitutes as normal and they follow it.
- phailhaus 8y ago
  > I know plenty of fat people who eat three times a day and are obsessed with food. You're taking the analogy in the wrong direction. The point is that the person who is trying to stop eating is obsessed with food, not that "people who eat three times a day are never obsessed with food". The point is that sex is a part of life, and trying to stifle pornography and prostitution is as misguided and counterproductive as trying to stop eating. > Prostitution and pornography are also markers for human trafficking. And why is that? Because it's illegal and unregulated. You're accidentally making a circular argument here: it's illegal, therefore the actors in the industry tend to be Bad People, so they contribute to the degradation of society, therefore it should be illegal? Look at Prohibition, or the legalization of marijuana in the US. It's not the thing itself that leads to degradation, it's the unwillingness to be mature about it.
  - newen 8y ago
    I don't buy your analogy at all. I think a sex obsessed culture is a result of an overly sexualized media. And it's not like I'm saying ban sex. I'm saying ban pornography and prostitution, which are abuses of sex.
    - tonysdg 8y ago
      > abuses of sex I think that's where the breakdown is occurring here: this is ultimately a values-based judgment. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I think both sides of this debate would do well to recognize that this will ultimately come down to one's own personal beliefs on the subject matter. Put more explicitly: there are those who will consider pornography and prostitution immoral regardless of the specifics, and there are those who have no issues with it assuming it's regulated (and such regulations are strictly enforced/policed) so that only informed, consenting adults can take part. Convincing either of these individuals of the other's position is likely futile.
    - xte 8y ago
      So what kind of media Vikings have in the past, when nearly nobody even know how to write/read? And even before in Celtic population? Did you know Halloween origin? Did you know that a traditional Celtic fest in which people of a village start to form semi-random couples and live together for an year, if it work they remain together if not another (semi-orgiastic) turn? Or ancient Roman's Baccanals? Or ancient Greeks orgy, often homosexual and/or pedophile?
    - phailhaus 8y ago
      Again, you're making circular arguments in order to claim that pornography and prostitution are bad. You can't reasonably make these claims without also arguing that we should ban alcohol because Prohibition led to illegal smuggling runs and all sorts of crime. Prostitution is illegal, therefore it leads to human trafficking, therefore it should be illegal? How are you going to have rampant human trafficking in a transparent system that requires brothels to have licenses, undergo inspections, and empower their employees to report unfair/unsafe/unsavory business practices? You also need to leave out your personal opinions about sex when it comes to this discussion. I noticed that you previously mentioned that one of the reasons women turn to pornography is because they are "out of options". That's not your decision to make. If an adult makes a personal choice to turn to pornography, it's not your place to go "but that's unsavory to me, let me protect you by making that profession illegal". You're imposing your own negative views of sex on everyone else. If you think participating in pornography is inherently degrading, you don't have to do it!
- pixl97 8y ago
  You know what, it's a great idea to both reduce usage and create a terrible black market that brings far more harm than the original problem. Regulating vice is a very dangerous road to travel on. Your good intentions pave the path to hell.
  - newen 8y ago
    At least we have a decent argument here. That regulating something might lead to even worse consequences. Then the discussion should be on which is worse, a world where it is made illegal, or a world where it is regulated, or a world where it is unregulated. Saying that regulating or making illegal something is bad is itself is a terrible argument.
    - fjsolwmv 8y ago
      How is pornography and prostitution different from homosexuality and marriage, that justifies making some wrong but not the others? One could argue that Homosexuality is a genocide against the whole species, and marriage is degrading to the person made a slave to their own home.

newen 8y ago

That's a terrible argument. I know plenty of fat people who eat three times a day and are obsessed with food. And I'm sure there are lots of skinny people who eat twice a day and don't think about food that much. I have gone weeks like that. Women who do prostitution and pornography do so because they have few choices. Prostitution and pornography are also markers for human trafficking. Because both prostitution and pornography are avenues for exploitation of women, they contribute to the degradation of society. I don't particularly care for the argument of women being free to choose because most women in the two industries have few other choices and so are abused and exploited. Also, banning something does reduce its usage. Its usage moves to the more criminal element of society but it does reduce its usage among the wider population and media; see guns, drugs, etc. And let's not pretend like media has no influence on people. Whatever is shown in media becomes normalized quickly. Most people look at media (i.e. other people) for what constitutes as normal and they follow it.

phailhaus 8y ago
> I know plenty of fat people who eat three times a day and are obsessed with food. You're taking the analogy in the wrong direction. The point is that the person who is trying to stop eating is obsessed with food, not that "people who eat three times a day are never obsessed with food". The point is that sex is a part of life, and trying to stifle pornography and prostitution is as misguided and counterproductive as trying to stop eating. > Prostitution and pornography are also markers for human trafficking. And why is that? Because it's illegal and unregulated. You're accidentally making a circular argument here: it's illegal, therefore the actors in the industry tend to be Bad People, so they contribute to the degradation of society, therefore it should be illegal? Look at Prohibition, or the legalization of marijuana in the US. It's not the thing itself that leads to degradation, it's the unwillingness to be mature about it.
- newen 8y ago
  I don't buy your analogy at all. I think a sex obsessed culture is a result of an overly sexualized media. And it's not like I'm saying ban sex. I'm saying ban pornography and prostitution, which are abuses of sex.
  - tonysdg 8y ago
    > abuses of sex I think that's where the breakdown is occurring here: this is ultimately a values-based judgment. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I think both sides of this debate would do well to recognize that this will ultimately come down to one's own personal beliefs on the subject matter. Put more explicitly: there are those who will consider pornography and prostitution immoral regardless of the specifics, and there are those who have no issues with it assuming it's regulated (and such regulations are strictly enforced/policed) so that only informed, consenting adults can take part. Convincing either of these individuals of the other's position is likely futile.
  - xte 8y ago
    So what kind of media Vikings have in the past, when nearly nobody even know how to write/read? And even before in Celtic population? Did you know Halloween origin? Did you know that a traditional Celtic fest in which people of a village start to form semi-random couples and live together for an year, if it work they remain together if not another (semi-orgiastic) turn? Or ancient Roman's Baccanals? Or ancient Greeks orgy, often homosexual and/or pedophile?
  - phailhaus 8y ago
    Again, you're making circular arguments in order to claim that pornography and prostitution are bad. You can't reasonably make these claims without also arguing that we should ban alcohol because Prohibition led to illegal smuggling runs and all sorts of crime. Prostitution is illegal, therefore it leads to human trafficking, therefore it should be illegal? How are you going to have rampant human trafficking in a transparent system that requires brothels to have licenses, undergo inspections, and empower their employees to report unfair/unsafe/unsavory business practices? You also need to leave out your personal opinions about sex when it comes to this discussion. I noticed that you previously mentioned that one of the reasons women turn to pornography is because they are "out of options". That's not your decision to make. If an adult makes a personal choice to turn to pornography, it's not your place to go "but that's unsavory to me, let me protect you by making that profession illegal". You're imposing your own negative views of sex on everyone else. If you think participating in pornography is inherently degrading, you don't have to do it!
pixl97 8y ago
You know what, it's a great idea to both reduce usage and create a terrible black market that brings far more harm than the original problem. Regulating vice is a very dangerous road to travel on. Your good intentions pave the path to hell.
- newen 8y ago
  At least we have a decent argument here. That regulating something might lead to even worse consequences. Then the discussion should be on which is worse, a world where it is made illegal, or a world where it is regulated, or a world where it is unregulated. Saying that regulating or making illegal something is bad is itself is a terrible argument.
  - fjsolwmv 8y ago
    How is pornography and prostitution different from homosexuality and marriage, that justifies making some wrong but not the others? One could argue that Homosexuality is a genocide against the whole species, and marriage is degrading to the person made a slave to their own home.