6 ms·

I do never used Tumblr but AFAICT porn is the most common contents, so i bet the major source of revenue... BTW the neovittorian movement against sex in genera

by xte 8y ago

I do never used Tumblr but AFAICT porn is the most common contents, so i bet the major source of revenue... BTW the neovittorian movement against sex in general (disguised in many form to health things, anti-pornography for pedagogic things, anti-prostitution because of racket, ...) it's a clear sign of our degradation as society.

newen 8y ago
Why? It's not exactly a stretch to day that pornography and prostitution are clear signs of the degradation of a society.
- xte 8y ago
  Maybe, but we know well that prohibitionist does not work, instead generate worst things. We also know that "sexual abstinence" as "pushed" in some USA are result in a certainly RISE of STM and unwanted juvenile pregnancy then other area and especially other country in witch sexuality is normal part of school's programs... The point is that sexuality is a natural part of our life so IMO we have to free is as much as we can instead of trying the classic Victorian style. The same is for alcohol, drugs (both legal and illegal), ... Only switching from a somewhat sexual repressed country like Italy to more free countries like Sweden before, French now I see a big improvement in mean people satisfactions and awareness, Italian's watch far more porn and goes far more with prostitutes than Frenches or Swedish, just as an example. I see child being different in more free countries than in others, for instance in Italy and UK I see children that are in medium like earthquakes, in Sweden and French they are far more calm again in medium but in Italy and UK parent's "watch and supervise" far more their children than Sweden or France. long story short, use education, culture, not stick nor carrots to build a better world.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  What? That's a huge stretch. Prostitution, for one, has been common in pretty much every culture throughout history, so I don't know what you think we're "degrading" from.
  - newen 8y ago
    Are we just going to pretend that christian morality (in the general sense) doesn't exist and lots of people don't follow that morality? I don't see how that's a stretch unless you pretend that the morality of whole swathes of people are not valid because you have another set of morals. It's not a huge stretch at all.
    - pixl97 8y ago
      Ones morality is the justification for every atrocity. I'll assume every morality is invalid. Instead base ones intent on the harms their actions cause.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > I'll assume every morality is invalid. Instead base ones intent on the harms their actions cause. Assessment of harms depends on a value system; you can't escape the need to choose a morality.
        pixl97 8y ago
        The problem comes not from assuming your chosen morality is wrong, but from demanding that your morality is right. When your choice of morality affects more then a few close people, it is by definition unjust.
    - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
      Millions of people believing something does not automatically make that thing correct. "Prostitution is a sign of the degradation of society" is a claim that requires evidence. I'm happy to hear whatever evidence you have. "Lots of other people think so" is not evidence. Given that prostitution has existed in pretty much every historical culture we've been able to study, I'd like to know when and where the society that they all degraded from can be found. (Incidentally, there's plenty of historical pornography as well, dating back at least to Rome IIRC, although of course it didn't really blow up until photographic reproduction became cheap and easy.)
- phailhaus 8y ago
  Who's obsessed with food: someone who eats three times a day or someone who tries not to eat at all? A society with a healthy attitude towards sex will have prostitution and pornography, because sex is normal and part of being human. I would say that a society obsessed with repressing sexuality has issues.
  - newen 8y ago
    That's a terrible argument. I know plenty of fat people who eat three times a day and are obsessed with food. And I'm sure there are lots of skinny people who eat twice a day and don't think about food that much. I have gone weeks like that. Women who do prostitution and pornography do so because they have few choices. Prostitution and pornography are also markers for human trafficking. Because both prostitution and pornography are avenues for exploitation of women, they contribute to the degradation of society. I don't particularly care for the argument of women being free to choose because most women in the two industries have few other choices and so are abused and exploited. Also, banning something does reduce its usage. Its usage moves to the more criminal element of society but it does reduce its usage among the wider population and media; see guns, drugs, etc. And let's not pretend like media has no influence on people. Whatever is shown in media becomes normalized quickly. Most people look at media (i.e. other people) for what constitutes as normal and they follow it.
    - phailhaus 8y ago
      > I know plenty of fat people who eat three times a day and are obsessed with food. You're taking the analogy in the wrong direction. The point is that the person who is trying to stop eating is obsessed with food, not that "people who eat three times a day are never obsessed with food". The point is that sex is a part of life, and trying to stifle pornography and prostitution is as misguided and counterproductive as trying to stop eating. > Prostitution and pornography are also markers for human trafficking. And why is that? Because it's illegal and unregulated. You're accidentally making a circular argument here: it's illegal, therefore the actors in the industry tend to be Bad People, so they contribute to the degradation of society, therefore it should be illegal? Look at Prohibition, or the legalization of marijuana in the US. It's not the thing itself that leads to degradation, it's the unwillingness to be mature about it.
ineedasername 8y ago
I'm not sure it's a degradation of society. I think it's unhealthy, but the original Victorian era taboos didn't result in a degradation of society. In fact it appears to have given rise to something of a backlash against that kind of thinking culminating in the roaring 20's. Then the depression hit, and WWII, and in the aftermath of WWII female empowerment (women in the industrial workplace) there was a backlash movement against women to "put them back" in the home. But then the counter backlash of the 60's and 70's hit. We've spent the last ~120 years swinging the pendulum back and forth, I'm not sure this is anything else but a part of that same pattern.

by xte 8y ago

newen 8y ago

Why? It's not exactly a stretch to day that pornography and prostitution are clear signs of the degradation of a society.

xte 8y ago
Maybe, but we know well that prohibitionist does not work, instead generate worst things. We also know that "sexual abstinence" as "pushed" in some USA are result in a certainly RISE of STM and unwanted juvenile pregnancy then other area and especially other country in witch sexuality is normal part of school's programs... The point is that sexuality is a natural part of our life so IMO we have to free is as much as we can instead of trying the classic Victorian style. The same is for alcohol, drugs (both legal and illegal), ... Only switching from a somewhat sexual repressed country like Italy to more free countries like Sweden before, French now I see a big improvement in mean people satisfactions and awareness, Italian's watch far more porn and goes far more with prostitutes than Frenches or Swedish, just as an example. I see child being different in more free countries than in others, for instance in Italy and UK I see children that are in medium like earthquakes, in Sweden and French they are far more calm again in medium but in Italy and UK parent's "watch and supervise" far more their children than Sweden or France. long story short, use education, culture, not stick nor carrots to build a better world.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
What? That's a huge stretch. Prostitution, for one, has been common in pretty much every culture throughout history, so I don't know what you think we're "degrading" from.
- newen 8y ago
  Are we just going to pretend that christian morality (in the general sense) doesn't exist and lots of people don't follow that morality? I don't see how that's a stretch unless you pretend that the morality of whole swathes of people are not valid because you have another set of morals. It's not a huge stretch at all.
  - pixl97 8y ago
    Ones morality is the justification for every atrocity. I'll assume every morality is invalid. Instead base ones intent on the harms their actions cause.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > I'll assume every morality is invalid. Instead base ones intent on the harms their actions cause. Assessment of harms depends on a value system; you can't escape the need to choose a morality.
      - pixl97 8y ago
        The problem comes not from assuming your chosen morality is wrong, but from demanding that your morality is right. When your choice of morality affects more then a few close people, it is by definition unjust.
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    Millions of people believing something does not automatically make that thing correct. "Prostitution is a sign of the degradation of society" is a claim that requires evidence. I'm happy to hear whatever evidence you have. "Lots of other people think so" is not evidence. Given that prostitution has existed in pretty much every historical culture we've been able to study, I'd like to know when and where the society that they all degraded from can be found. (Incidentally, there's plenty of historical pornography as well, dating back at least to Rome IIRC, although of course it didn't really blow up until photographic reproduction became cheap and easy.)
phailhaus 8y ago
Who's obsessed with food: someone who eats three times a day or someone who tries not to eat at all? A society with a healthy attitude towards sex will have prostitution and pornography, because sex is normal and part of being human. I would say that a society obsessed with repressing sexuality has issues.
- newen 8y ago
  That's a terrible argument. I know plenty of fat people who eat three times a day and are obsessed with food. And I'm sure there are lots of skinny people who eat twice a day and don't think about food that much. I have gone weeks like that. Women who do prostitution and pornography do so because they have few choices. Prostitution and pornography are also markers for human trafficking. Because both prostitution and pornography are avenues for exploitation of women, they contribute to the degradation of society. I don't particularly care for the argument of women being free to choose because most women in the two industries have few other choices and so are abused and exploited. Also, banning something does reduce its usage. Its usage moves to the more criminal element of society but it does reduce its usage among the wider population and media; see guns, drugs, etc. And let's not pretend like media has no influence on people. Whatever is shown in media becomes normalized quickly. Most people look at media (i.e. other people) for what constitutes as normal and they follow it.
  - phailhaus 8y ago
    > I know plenty of fat people who eat three times a day and are obsessed with food. You're taking the analogy in the wrong direction. The point is that the person who is trying to stop eating is obsessed with food, not that "people who eat three times a day are never obsessed with food". The point is that sex is a part of life, and trying to stifle pornography and prostitution is as misguided and counterproductive as trying to stop eating. > Prostitution and pornography are also markers for human trafficking. And why is that? Because it's illegal and unregulated. You're accidentally making a circular argument here: it's illegal, therefore the actors in the industry tend to be Bad People, so they contribute to the degradation of society, therefore it should be illegal? Look at Prohibition, or the legalization of marijuana in the US. It's not the thing itself that leads to degradation, it's the unwillingness to be mature about it.

ineedasername 8y ago

I'm not sure it's a degradation of society. I think it's unhealthy, but the original Victorian era taboos didn't result in a degradation of society. In fact it appears to have given rise to something of a backlash against that kind of thinking culminating in the roaring 20's. Then the depression hit, and WWII, and in the aftermath of WWII female empowerment (women in the industrial workplace) there was a backlash movement against women to "put them back" in the home. But then the counter backlash of the 60's and 70's hit. We've spent the last ~120 years swinging the pendulum back and forth, I'm not sure this is anything else but a part of that same pattern.