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People die or suffer serious harm in hospitals all the time. This often happens during sleep, and in many cases it could have been prevented if the patient had

People die or suffer serious harm in hospitals all the time. This often happens during sleep, and in many cases it could have been prevented if the patient had been checked on more frequently. It is much easier to confirm that the patient is ok if they are awake. When the nurse softly asks "do you feel ok?" when drawing blood in the night, it is not just meant as soothing, but just as much to check if further treatment is required. It's a bit like the soldier checking if there is a bullet in the chamber when picking up a gun. Even if you experience a gun that goes off by acciden only once, it becomes really easy to understand the thousands of times the soldier will do this when he knows there is no bullet there.

code_duck 8y ago
Is that like how I constantly hit Cmd-S while working even though the chances of my system crashing are low?
flippyhead 8y ago
This is interesting and not something I'd considered. I wonder though if they've got the balance right. These protocols were developed no doubt before it was really understood how incredibly dangerous poor sleep is to our health most especially during recovery from illness.
- trashtester 8y ago
  Its a mix of protocols, procedures, habits and personal biases, as are most such things in most workplaces. But most of all, I think it is an attention thing. For the staff, a patient being sleep depraved for a couple nights is very low on their list of concerns. They see people die almost every day. For the patient, the emphasis is different, especially for the ones that are there for minor issues. Medically, a few nights with reduced sleep quality is unlikely to make a big difference. Now, if it goes on for weeks or months, that is another matter. Still, more people are probably seriously injured or die from bedsores sleep depravation. Not to mention those that die from fall injuries caused by trying to walk to the bathroom unassisted. (The latter is the most frequent case of preventable fatal injuries aquired in most hospitals, at least in my country) From my point of view, most complaints about loss of sleep in hospital are in the same category as complaining about the food. 1st world problems.
  - Nasrudith 8y ago
    Except sleep is important to recovery for colds let alone serious ailments. It isn't like complaining about only bland vegetables and starches. It is like complaining about hospital food being literally only a handful of breadcrumbs a day and lamenting their blood counts are so low, muscle atrophy and they have scurvy. Clearly the whiners should have been exercising more
    - code_duck 8y ago
      Hospital food actually is quite unhealthy and not conducive to healing. I’d imagine that the only people who woild dismiss such concerns are the people who put such a system in place where they serve white bread and Jell-O with high fructose corn syrup and artificial food coloring to people who are barely breathing. Hospital patients need all the nutrition they can get. Providing the equivalent of a frozen dinner or fast food isn’t very responsible.
  - code_duck 8y ago
    Hospitals are barely capable of providing appropriate foods for people with strict gluten-free diet. Also, their food basically follows 1950s American ideas the nutrition… Breaded chicken with Jell-O and canned peas. I don’t think allergy avoidance and food that actually has nutrition is a “first world problem“ and it’s not constructive to dismiss these concerns in such a manner. It’s especially absurd given that patients are surely paying enough money to provide decent food or any food they desire.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  It does depend on what sort of ward you are in I have mostly spent time in low risk and high risk renal wards and intensive care. If your in a high risk category they would rather be safe than sorry
jessriedel 8y ago
Source? I've asked nurses why they constantly wake up patients and they always say it is because they are supposed to get X data ever Y hours. None of them have ever said they purposefully wake a patient to just ask how they're doing. If they wake you up while they're checking something, obviously they are likely to ask is you need anything. But that is not the topic of the discussion. Also, its usually phlebotomist, not nurses, who are drawing blood at night.
- trashtester 8y ago
  I did a text analytics project some years back, where we were scanning for signs that a (avoidable) patient injury had happened (such as bedsores, brain damage due to lack of oxygen or glucose, fall injuries for patients that should not walk around on their own, hospital infections, what have you). All documents in the patient records were analyzed, including the ones filled out during routine checks etc, which included sections for checking for vital signs, mental state, etc. There are pros and cons to waking a patient just to check for vital signs, but if you do have to wake her/him, basic monitoring should be performed. (whether or not it is recorded) I don't know how widespread the use of phlebotomists is in my country, or if the occupation exists at all (separately from nurses/medical assistants).

code_duck 8y ago

Is that like how I constantly hit Cmd-S while working even though the chances of my system crashing are low?

flippyhead 8y ago

This is interesting and not something I'd considered. I wonder though if they've got the balance right. These protocols were developed no doubt before it was really understood how incredibly dangerous poor sleep is to our health most especially during recovery from illness.

trashtester 8y ago
Its a mix of protocols, procedures, habits and personal biases, as are most such things in most workplaces. But most of all, I think it is an attention thing. For the staff, a patient being sleep depraved for a couple nights is very low on their list of concerns. They see people die almost every day. For the patient, the emphasis is different, especially for the ones that are there for minor issues. Medically, a few nights with reduced sleep quality is unlikely to make a big difference. Now, if it goes on for weeks or months, that is another matter. Still, more people are probably seriously injured or die from bedsores sleep depravation. Not to mention those that die from fall injuries caused by trying to walk to the bathroom unassisted. (The latter is the most frequent case of preventable fatal injuries aquired in most hospitals, at least in my country) From my point of view, most complaints about loss of sleep in hospital are in the same category as complaining about the food. 1st world problems.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  Except sleep is important to recovery for colds let alone serious ailments. It isn't like complaining about only bland vegetables and starches. It is like complaining about hospital food being literally only a handful of breadcrumbs a day and lamenting their blood counts are so low, muscle atrophy and they have scurvy. Clearly the whiners should have been exercising more
  - code_duck 8y ago
    Hospital food actually is quite unhealthy and not conducive to healing. I’d imagine that the only people who woild dismiss such concerns are the people who put such a system in place where they serve white bread and Jell-O with high fructose corn syrup and artificial food coloring to people who are barely breathing. Hospital patients need all the nutrition they can get. Providing the equivalent of a frozen dinner or fast food isn’t very responsible.
- code_duck 8y ago
  Hospitals are barely capable of providing appropriate foods for people with strict gluten-free diet. Also, their food basically follows 1950s American ideas the nutrition… Breaded chicken with Jell-O and canned peas. I don’t think allergy avoidance and food that actually has nutrition is a “first world problem“ and it’s not constructive to dismiss these concerns in such a manner. It’s especially absurd given that patients are surely paying enough money to provide decent food or any food they desire.
C1sc0cat 8y ago
It does depend on what sort of ward you are in I have mostly spent time in low risk and high risk renal wards and intensive care. If your in a high risk category they would rather be safe than sorry

jessriedel 8y ago

Source? I've asked nurses why they constantly wake up patients and they always say it is because they are supposed to get X data ever Y hours. None of them have ever said they purposefully wake a patient to just ask how they're doing. If they wake you up while they're checking something, obviously they are likely to ask is you need anything. But that is not the topic of the discussion. Also, its usually phlebotomist, not nurses, who are drawing blood at night.

trashtester 8y ago
I did a text analytics project some years back, where we were scanning for signs that a (avoidable) patient injury had happened (such as bedsores, brain damage due to lack of oxygen or glucose, fall injuries for patients that should not walk around on their own, hospital infections, what have you). All documents in the patient records were analyzed, including the ones filled out during routine checks etc, which included sections for checking for vital signs, mental state, etc. There are pros and cons to waking a patient just to check for vital signs, but if you do have to wake her/him, basic monitoring should be performed. (whether or not it is recorded) I don't know how widespread the use of phlebotomists is in my country, or if the occupation exists at all (separately from nurses/medical assistants).